Freeconomy Blog
Tue
14 Feb
Questions, Ideas and Title for a New Book on Moneyless Living
| 81 comments |
Part of the reason I have been so lame with blogging over the last two months is because I've been working around-the-clock on a few things, one of which is a new book on moneyless living (it's catchier than saying the fully localised gift economy, which is what it is). The book is a response to the questions and comments that have arisen from my first two and a half years of living moneyless, mixed with all the thoughts and ideas I have developed in the two years since I finished writing The Monyeyless Man. The book will focus on three main aspects of the moneyless life (none of which will be anything to do with my petty existence this time, thankfully).
I'll be starting with a in-depth exploration of the philosophy and theory behind moneyless living, combining deep ecology with economics to shed what I believe to be radically new perspectives on some of the vital - yet up to now unquestioned - pillars of economic theory, whilst at the same time highlighting what I believe to be the major flaws in the logic of the environmental and counter-culture movements.
This is crucial, as without fully understanding why we need to change our cultural stories, behavioural patterns and social design, there isn't a hope in hell of us doing so - why would we bother?
Once I've outlined these new theories I have been working on, I will look at the real obstacles that I see to moneyless living, along with other obstacles that you folk have cited to me over the years - ranging from addiction to access-to land issues - and propose road maps for navigating these roadblocks wherever I can.
The third phase of the book, the largest, will be all about the practicalities, offering a menu of solutions for you to choose from if you want to go moneyless (or simply diversify your personal economy to make it more resilient to external shocks), regardless of whether you live in the country or city, and depending on the level of technology you like to use (paleolithic to modern day). This practical half of the book will (again, I hope) be useful to you even if you completely disagree with all the philosophy in the first part. It'll be broke down into categories such as food, shelter, sex, stuff, transport, education, health and so on.
My deadline is set for the end of March in order to be out in October, and things are on track. Whilst the last three years of fielding questions and comments has given be a good sense of what people want from it, I would love to know if there are any specific aspects of moneyless living that you would like me to address in it, whether they be practical issues, philosophical issues or obstacles that you feel are stopping you from taking the next step.
If there are, then please ask them in the comments section below or by email (comments are easier as they don't get repeated each time). Similarly, if any of you know of any incredibly inspiring projects out there, or any fantastic ideas that may not have made it onto my radar, do feel free to leave a note about them below also and if they are suitable and useful I will try to include them.
We are also in the process of deciding on a title that may appeal to people across the spectrum, and be inclusive of people who want to live this way for ecological, social, philosophical, self-sufficiency, frugality and post-economic-apocalypse reasons.
If anyone has any great ideas for what would make a good title and/or subtitle for this book, please do let me know! To guide you, it will be all about the why and how of reducing your reliance on money, whether it be giving up money completely or just in one aspect of your life (such as transport, food or energy.) Answers on a postcard...any help hugely appreciated.
Lots of love to you all.
THE FREECONOMY BLOG is written by Mark Boyle, who lived for over two years without money, and is the founder of the Freeconomy Community. He is the author of The Moneyless Man.
Comment on this Post:
treadlightly comments ...
the quicker you get that book wrote the better mark :-) i will be ordering that as soon as it comes out.
friends at the transition heathrow have just had their 2nd anniversary on the land that they took over. it was an old nursery that was left to ruin and all windows in greenhouses etc were smashed....the locals have really taken to them and help in many ways. if you have never heardof them then they may be able to help you or vice versa.
keep up the great work dude x
Mark Boyle comments ...
@ treadlightly - big thank you for that. Huge fan of what they are doing there, and you've also given me an idea. Do you have any emails of contacts there - if so email me on mark@justfortheloveofit.org
Catherine O'Dea comments ...
Hi Mark,
Friends of ours have been over in India trying out moneyless living in Kerala I think it was - I think it is the UN backed initiative. However they were quite disolutioned with the treatment of the elderly, who once they could no longer contribute/exchange their skills (sorry don;t really know the lingo) were pushed out. Old age is quite a big obstacle I think?
Just thought it might raise some questions.
Thanks
Cath
Tom Astle comments ...
a philosophical issue: many studies have shown that once a certain standard of living is reached, anything beyond this adds little to well being and happiness. I think discussing questions regarding why we are working so hard, whats it for? what are we aiming for? should we not have a society thats is aimed at maximising well-being rather than profit and economic growth, after all what is economic growth really for? have we lost sight of what we are working for? does having all this stuff really make people happy? if not do we need to build a different society?
obvious questions but i think interesting. subtitle: There is such thing as a free lunch
EkoChef comments ...
perhaps you shud come into your light as a proper ghost writer and sign off as Penny-Less
hollyhawthorn comments ...
Oooh hurry up and publish Mark, we all devoured the last book and it would be great to have a 'top up' to the resolve during these dark winter days, especially when the media is so focussed on debt and recession. I'm guessing you will have already covered it in your book, but i would be interested in other peoples fears of being moneyless and how they over came them - eg. i have spent ages this month deliberating whether i can live without certain items, finally i put them on freecycle and BOOM the fear of being without the items was blasted into oblivion by meeting new people and seeing their pleasure at taking my old stuff away for me. Its overcoming that initial fear of being without 'things' i personally struggle with most and i'd love to hear how you and others got/get over it.
Can't wait to read it. Keep well xxx
Mark Boyle comments ...
@ HollyHawthorn - thanks for this. You guessed right! I've working with Dr. Chris Johnstone, an addictions specialist (and all-round inspirational character) on a piece addressing just that. I hope this one doesn't disappoint you.
@ Tom Astle - as always Tom, great questions and perspectives. I've actually gone into that topic quite a bit in the second chapter - the only thing I would do a little different is use the word 'optimise' rather than 'maximise'. It sounds pedantic, but the difference is key to how we view our place in the world when balancing up the needs of the egocentric and holistic selves.
Good subtitle idea - I have actually used that quote as a intro to one segment of the book!
magicalcat comments ...
Hi Mark, will be watching for this book, by the way, I do these silly "research" thingies via email where I am paid in vouchers, so a great way to get my books for free from Amazon, even better if I can get the 2ndhand ones so that they are reused.
Anyway, along with the concern for the elderly which is a very good point made earlier, I would like to see how people with a disability can manage in a moneyless system. It would be great to see the emphasis not just on the physical aspects such as building, food harvesting and growing, but also on the other things that people who cannot do these can offer and how essential these skills also are to a collective. Including the spiritual element.
Also how medicine and care for sick people would be addressed.
Wow, just thought how great it would be to have the "healers" and "counsellors" not working for money, but as they are needed, wouldn't we have such a healthier life. So illogical, how can spiritual care and healing be something that can be "bought?" Bit like buying the rain, or wind.
Best wishes
marie jackson comments ...
Mark I would love it if you called your book money don't make the man.
A mans worth is not his wealth, but his actions. What an amazing insperational man you are. I wish I had your courage. Not to let the judgement of others be the undoing of your most Nobel cause.
Hippogryph comments ...
Hi, I am delighted to hear about another book, Mark. I take a time to brainstorm for ideas, in a mean time so many thanks for sharing and letting us participate with suggestions. Mostly i'm excited to read about the practical ideas and solutions. I believe you are really good in bringing words in action and that motivates me too. Even from the videos from the Bank of Ideas I've found new ways.
One note to last entry regarding disabled people involved in a moneyless eco-living, excuse me incase it is not accurate, beacuse I have not experienced that personally yet. But I have heard some good stuff about Camphill society, that helps live quite moneyless and greatly involving disabled people to live like others there. If I am not wrong.
Also to spread the idea...here in Czech is an organization that is independent from government, I believe and they organize events for especially young people to enhance their care for Nature. It's very much run by volunteers so not about money but passion. When people meet in order to clean woods, paths, rivers etc, they play games together, and sing songs and care for each other, meet for weekends or holiday vacation, is something like this in UK?
best wishes and good luck with all your project
love Nel the Hippogryph
maarten comments ...
I would be very interested to hear what you've come up with regarding the 'access to land' issue. Our dream of living self-sufficiently in our off-grid, self-built earthship/earthbag house hasn't moved passed the discovery stage for years now, as we're having trouble finding land within our budget.
In the meantime, I'm finding that the more I do myself, the less I have to pay for (duh!) and the more satisfaction I get.
Your post on the gift economy got me looking into cooperatives (via Kropotkin) and how they could work as a model in my chosen field of work (webdevelopment). Lots of ideas brewing and just waiting to blossom, but nothing concrete just yet. Looking forward to your new book and some more practical suggestions, the first one was very inspiring!
Take care,
Maarten
Mark Boyle comments ...
@ maarten - I've already written a whole section on it, so its great to hear that people are wanting information on that - you're not alone btw!
magicalcat comments ...
thanks Hypogryph, (what does that mean? Sounds intriguing.) I will google and have a look. Rereading my comment, maybe I should rephrase, it's not that people with disabilities need to be "given things they can manage," as in teaching a child and letting them "help," but that we can do things that others cannot do, I meet so many people who cannot sew, cook and make stuff, amazingly it was my disability that took me away from the physical aspects of living and opened up this world that I can do well and use my talents.
I would love this book to be about the whole of the society, the 200 skills in victorian villages were not all about physical abilities, people did as talented and able, and each had a part.
Sorry if I sound like I am banging on my own drum, it's not intended as a whinge, but as an eye opener ass so many people just think of the house building and hunting and gathering, there is so much more to a community.
magicalcat comments ...
just googled, Camphill society, it is for people with learning disabilities, and not about living moneyless. My brain works well, and these are places I am not keen on as they are part of the problem in our society, people are not cared for as individuals, but as a group and slotted into sections where others think they should be. I am sure people caring in these places care and do a good job, just too institutionalised for my liking.
Sorry Mark for going off on a tangent, but I find it so frustrating that communities living off grid etc are typically middle aged, with a few lucky very fit elders, it's not like that for all of us. Rant over, deep breath.
Anyway, please I would so love to see how a moneyless society not only takes care, but values and utilizes those of us who cannot run, farm, dance and chop wood.
comments ...
Possible Title: Repossession. (because we have been dispossessed)
----------------------------------------
We take everything
.
We have to
.
There is no other way. The alternative is death. And we are not alone in this. Every single life form – from the lowliest amoeba to the grandest specimen of Homo Sapiens (i.e. You), does the same thing. That includes all animals, fish, reptiles, plants …everything organic.
What, in point of fact, do we (life forms) give back? Waste. Sewage. Pollution. (I can’t think of anything else, on the physical level. With the exception of pollution, we do, after taking, actually contribute to the Life Cycle of the planet, in terms of the carbon dioxide we exhale, the organic waste we excrete, and the waste materials we leave behind when we die. (which other life forms excrete) . However the point is that we have to take, in the first place, in order to live).
There is no dishonour whatsoever in 'taking', provided you do not take more than your fair share.
The dishonour comes – or at least came – when certain families (historically) elbowed their way to the front of the queue, thrusting all others out of their way, and said: “THIS IS ALL MINE! Everyone else sod off!” That’s dishonour.
Taking just what you need, no more, no less, is fair, reasonable,right, just and honourable. Because your only other option is death.
------------------------------------------------------
We have all been dispossessed, this last 6000 years has been a transition to the Exchange economy. - from a song ofTerraba original tribe, Costa Rica:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHDDTPuKyc4
You can not buy the wind
You can not buy the sun
You can not buy rain
You can not buy the heat
You can not buy the clouds
You can not buy the colors
You can not buy my happiness
You can not buy my blues away
Tú no puedes comprar al viento.
Tú no puedes comprar al sol.
Tú no puedes comprar la lluvia.
Tú no puedes comprar el calor.
Tú no puedes comprar las nubes.
Tú no puedes comprar los colores.
Tú no puedes comprar mi alegría.
Tú no puedes comprar mis dolores.
Somehow, a title 'repossession' would have to include 'balance'. Because it is not that echange is 'bad', it is that it has squeezed out the Gift.
Nigel comments ...
Hi
I thought a good name for your book could be
'Let life in'.
Cheers
Nigel
Frida comments ...
Hi Mark,
I'm very interested in the new book. And I would be interested in ideas how to cope with moneyless (in whatever degree) living when having children/teenagers...a few practical obstacles there...
Sreejith comments ...
I really want to read that book...Gandhiji is my first inspiration...now you inspiring me :)...But,gandhiji never tried moneyless living..He just followed simple life style....I support you....
Whatyouleavebehind comments ...
I for one can't wait. I loved the idea behind your first book, and part of me wants to leave behind the selfish culture we have created.
A more in depth practical guide would really give people a solid way to get on board.
Your main issue will be: how to get the land to live on and what to do about rates that may have to be paid, planning permissions, what is allowed on specific types of land.
People need to know how to get around these, particularly on a small island like the UK, where every last scrap of land seems to be owned by someone, even if its just unused wasteland.
treadlightly comments ...
hi mark, i commented at the top of this comment thread about transition heathrow or grow heathrow as it is known locally. i spoke to someone called joe dilation who is on site and he said the best form email address to start contact is info@transitionheathrow.com.... i hope this helps you. take care and good luck
Julia M comments ...
Hi Mark,
So fantastic to hear you are writting a new book, I will eagerly look forward to it. I love the suggestion above for a subtitle, there is such thing as a free lunch. How about 'Beyond Money' as a title? One of the things I'd like to hear more about is how to talk to close friends or family who are perhaps less than supportive of, or maybe don't understand, the concept of moneyless living.
Best wishes, and best of luck!
Elijah Klumb comments ...
I haven't got to read you book yet, but I have been living without money since July 2010. That being said, I'd like to include some of my own thoughts if they may be useful to you.
I've found to systems working in the world today. One is the monetary system based on competition, debt, and greed; each member vying for a small portion of a very limited pie. The other is the system of good will and favor. In this system, you can have everything you may obtain from the monetary system and even more. Instead of striving to accumulate money (which in today's society is all debt), you strive to serve those around you. When you inspire good will and favor in them, you can utilize their money, tools, skills, knowledge, experience, etc. So I find working in the system of good will and favor much more fulfilling and effective to accomplish my ends.
Before money was viewed as all-powerful and a necessity for life, people went about to provide themselves with the things they needed. They grew their own food, built their own housing, harvested their own water, produced their own clothing, etc. The monetary system has taken the ability of self-sustainability out of the hands of the every day person or family. They have become servants to debt in order to get those things which in a by-gone era they got themselves.
I have used the Earthship model developed by Michael Reynolds to give me a building structure with the innate ability of maintaining its own temperature. Built out of societies waste (rammed earth tires being the main structure) it has been proven to me to be quite possible without money. Because I saved the tire shop so much money taking their tires for free, they gave me two 55 gallon barrels which I will be utilizing to harvest my own rain water.
I also work with the community garden. Last season, I let many of my plants go to seed. This season, I have an abundance and diversity of seeds to take out the lawn where I live and plant food instead. Using permaculture methods developed by Bill Mollison and Geoff Lawton, I am working to plant a perennial food forest that will give me an ever increasing supply of free organic food. All inputs are built into the system, so once established I should need nothing from outside sources. For the time being, what little I do need I can find people in need of a service to accomplish (ie. taking food waste from local restaurants and grocery stores to compost).
To me money is a very corrupt system. All dollars in circulation are principle on a debt our country owes. When they have paid the principle, the interest will still need to be paid, and that is said to be paid by land and natural resources as well as the people that have been put up as collateral. That being the case, I strive to distance myself from this system and begin learning the ancient technique of providing yourself those things you need.
Les comments ...
We are all "kept" in varying degrees. Something in title having to do with liberating oneself by claiming ones own personal power. The will to survive will fuel that power.
Kadri comments ...
Hey Mark!
I can’t wait to read your new book. I think that it will be as inspiring as the first one.
I have a one question about dental care. I guess we all have to visit a dentist once in a while. How to deal with this issue without money?
My suggestion for the the title would be the quote by Ralph Waldo Emerson : ’’Money often costs too much’’
Wishing you the best!
comments ...
A difficulty that could be worthwhile to address is getting together a group of likeminded people who like each other, who work well together who dont wind each other up, who share the same values to live together for the purpose of getting the land to leave behind the selfish culture we have created, to create something new which has to be small human scale interlinked working villages.to grow to form an increasing whole.
With many people on board as a co-op culture sharing money resources the issues of obtaining the land is not so much of a problem. But, the issue of community relationships is, and getting people in who are in harmony of purpose, from the first.
Its a difficult issue I think because we come from a culture which is so individual, with such differing values.
Private commons is different to public commons. With private commons one wants to be sharing with those one gets on with. A house or a farm with land where one lives fultime its important. (I dont even have to describe why its important as I think everyone knows this)
With public commons (beaches, parks, streets, libraries, hospitals, etc) , in that abundance everyone has access, whether they get on or not.
Carmen comments ...
I would like to know if Elijah Klumb can email me to talk about living without money. Thank you
jason palmer comments ...
could be a big seller, are you going to advertise it at job centres ?
jason palmer comments ...
I heard a radio programme with people moaning they could not live on the money they get for the dole, obviously, they need the tricks and tips of moneyless living.
How to get the millions of unemployed to join the freeconomy and go moneyless ?
marie jackson comments ...
Mark, anything is possible when what you seek comes from your heart with the love of giving. You were right in be the change you wish to see. First you must give with a loving heart to experience the "gift" of giving.
Ross Mountney comments ...
Hi Mark, I'm really looking forward to reading your new book. I think you've already said the title here surely. It follows on so naturally from your first one; 'Money-Less Living. Ways to Try it for Yourself'.
The thing I find the hardest in trying to reduce our reliance on spending and money related lifestyles is in relation to a point someone's already made - our children. We are lucky - we home educated thereby removing ours from much harmful exposure to our materialistic culture. But they're moving into it now; I like to think they are well armed by their own upbringing which focussed on building their personal confidence and self esteem rather than measuring themselves by our wealth (or in our case - lack of it!) and our relationship with the earth has always been important in our house. I also like to think as home educators the kids are taking new ideas out into the world - as you do!
Very best wishes. x
Daisy comments ...
"Living a full life with empty pockets" appeals as a subtitle. Can't wait to read your new book, Mark :-)
Scottish Kate comments ...
Since reading your book, I have been thinking a lot about how much easier this must be in a warm climate. Here in the north of Scotland, where it barely gets light in winter, trying to minimise our use of central heating/lighting has not been a happy experience and has probably meant that we've had to consume more calories as a result. We are also rather limited in what we can grow or forage here and skipping's not really an option when we are miles from big-name supermarkets. I have managed to make lots of changes as a result of your original book but I would like the new one to include advice for those living in very cold and dark climates. I can't help thinking that, if I were in sunny Spain, I'd be chilling in a caravan, singing for my supper and harvesting giant lemons, but as things stand at the moment, I feel a bit limited by my surroundings for half the year (and very, very happy to be here for the rest of the time) x
miranda comments ...
Hi Guy's Just wanted to make a few suggestions as regards to our waste there are 2 books I highly recommend Liquid Gold: The Lore and Logic of Using Urine to Grow Plants by Carol Steinfeld and The Humanure Handbook: a guide to composting human manure by Joseph Jenkins Both amazing reads and giving a perfect solution to waste not want not......Hey Mark can't wait for the next book Wanting to know how to get the Land and have permission to build Had been living in a field all last year in my tent Most wonderful time of my life but not my land and wasn;t great from mid November so back in bricks and mortar for the time being debating selling but where and whom can I buy with? That is the dilemma Hoping your book will shed more light on the hows....Love and Rainbows mx
Hippogryph comments ...
Mark, suggestion for your book maybe any form of it would be optional :)
Title: Beyond Moneyless Culture
Subtitle: Inspiring Freeconomy
Subtitle: Inspiring trigger for our own action
Subtitle: Connecting to ourselves in freeconomy
way
excuse my grammar knowledge pls :)
Hippogryph comments ...
@Magicalcat;
Many thanks for the clarification, I'm glad for that and I hope that I understand bit more... That everyone can do their part, what they are unique in, no matter age, everyone can do something and that fits in a moneyless society. I am sorry to hear that Camphill may not do the best, even not moneyless it is very Self-sufficienct I felt, and every little puzzle part in a whole doeas matter even if it's not 100% I believe.
Also I would probably believe that 'part of the problem in society' is generally everone who is not living just as a plant or animal ment in a way of balance and symbiozy... every little help matters, and mistakes can happen, but we try our best always. The care doeas matter. Here I also wish the moneyless society take care for people who are less fit, but their skills and care is pricious.
So in this case I also wonder, dear Mark for any word in a book(likely it's already there...)how to help involve all age classess, more practical ways how to participate casually, and advice on going permanently while one might be fixed in a good way to family, supporting etc.
And Hippogryph, is my favourite symbolic mythological animal, believing in unbelieveable, that 'pigs can fly' believing in Love
:)
Hope comments ...
Have you heard about an amazing small town in the north west of England called Todmorden?
They are working towards becoming a self sufficient town through land share, cultural shift, living with less, re-descovering lost skills, running free adult education courses, producing local goods and eating locally produced food....and loads of other interesting stuff.
The web address is:
www.incredible-edible-todmorden.co.uk
comments ...
Ive had a couple of ideas for title or sub titles, they are:
A FOR SALE sign on a post sticking out of the earth, with a big cross plastered on it signifying NO. (and little similar signs on a Moon and Sun and the further away planets and stars also NO)-mm I ve just thought the Sun is particularly relevant!as thats the giver the provider of all of the things the mass and less favoured have been denied access to.
"Nurture Economy/ Nurtureculture" as the optional definition of Permaculture. Nurture enclosing all, encapsulates permacultures 3 ethos. Possibly it has a little more heart/soul in it, re Nurture Culture, and Nurture agriculture.
What else, Im sure there was more. Ill come back if there was.
Miranda, and anyone else interested. I have information on the size and number of cabins one can have on land but that land has to have a house already existing. Also I came across information on living on forest land any size and you can live there no planning needed, nor business, for a forest season a year which is 365 days minus 1 day. I have to search for where I put the information for someone else so when I do Ill put it here. love love love all. :-) heres a lovely link: Mr Happy Man. http://vimeo.com/36673515
magicalcat comments ...
@hypogryph, no offence intended regarding the camphill community, I am sure the people helping there are very hard working and caring, it is more about the way our society lumps people into groups and institutions that I find unacceptable. "The disabled," "the mentally ill" "the young" "the old", all unhelpful to individuals, but excellent for labelling within a slave market LOL.
Some of the suggestions for the title are brilliant, I like the "Empty Pocket," what about Empty Wallets, or "No Plastic," has a few meanings there, no credit card plastic, no oil based plastic, no falsity plastic. (Is falsity a word? Oh well, spell checker has not rejected it!)
how about Free From... nah, sounds like food, best of luck Mark, reckon you have a task now with all these suggestions for names and inclusions.
Elijah Klumb comments ...
Carmen,
I'm always welcome to talk with anyone about it. The more questions I get the more answers I find. The more I talk about it, the more refined my own ideas of my experience become. Feel free to email me at elijahsk@gmail.com .
kevin m. comments ...
I'd be interested to know your perspective on how you define freedom, and abundance, and whether being separate from money affects the way you perceive time, and the relationships you surround yourself with.
Mark Boyle comments ...
@ everyone - thanks for all the suggestions and comments so far, they're great. I'll reply at first chance, but in the meantime keep them coming.
miranda reply to comments comments ...
Hi comments just wnted to say thanx fro mr Happy and would be very interested to know more about size and where to live Also have website if you would like to add something to that as putting together lot's of handy info check it out www.freewebs.com/molijana many thanx miranda
Heather comments ...
Hey Sunshine,
It's some thing I'm sure you've already addressed, but I'm interested to hear your views on pharmaceutical development in a moneyless world, and whether or not you think alternative/natural therapies can take the place of medicine, particularly antibiotics and intravenous drugs. It's some thing I've always been unsure of myself and I've come across many different opinions on it, would be interesting to hear yours.
Hope you're keeping well.
Heather x
Mark Boyle comments ...
@ all - thanks for the great suggestions and questions so far.
We've nailed the titled, so all good on that front!
Grace Hillis comments ...
Hi Mark, I would like to know where to get B12 from in moneyless living. Is it safe to assume from vegetables? Also, what about feeding companion animals while there are still so many ending up in shelters and worse. Really looking forward to the book.
AngieC comments ...
Mark, really looking forward to the new book. A question I'd like to see answered, in print or on here - have you ever noticed some kind of - well, I'll call it a "generosity effect" going on? What I mean is, mostly when I give something away, I seem to receive something else, often something of more value (and I don't mean financially) than the value to me of whatever I gave away. It doesn't necessarily come from the same person, or be anything that I was wanting or knew that I needed, or even a physical item at all, but sometimes it seems that the harder I give stuff away to try to clear some space in my home & my life, the more the universe (for want of a better description) showers good things on me. That sounds quite daft when I write it down, and I'm not implying that if I give everything I "own" away I'll somehow live on manna for the rest of my life and nothing bad will ever happen. Just somehow, the more I give, freely & without any expectation of reciprocation, the more I seem to get given to. Anyone else noticed something like that?
comments ...
hi angie, so much, two of our windmills, an 80 watt solar panel and a couple of other solar panels and maybe half of all the building materials for our free farm. much much more, including the farm itself, and have many years of free clothes and have access to many land projects and free entry to fairs and festivals. when you do free you get friends, its a sharing thing relationship. its the same with bringing up my children just so much they've given as well as teaching.
Mark Boyle comments ...
@AngieC - all the time, but I will try to address this further in the book - thank you.
jason palmer comments ...
sell books,buy land, have your own village
yer a capitalist who does not use money,really, if you think about it eh
jason palmer comments ...
you could call the book 'how to live on bugger all a day' to take the mick out of those 'live on £5 a day' books :)
comments ...
Jason , one point about the 'now' soft swear word you used to make your comment have more power. That particular word became common parlance immediately after Prince Phillip emitted it around 1990. Thus giving permission for everybody in the matrix to use it. We follow fashion and we follow those we consider the top people, we copy and follow the gang. albeit that one is the most sophisticated.
There is perhaps nothing wrong with swearing when the hammer accidently misses the nail. and in other circumstances. But it also colours and degrades the words used. It is like a negative vibration put out into the ether. It is no coincidence that all the swear words we use in the main, damn nature and the fertilizing functions of nature. which is reflective of our unnatural inconsiderate use of nature and even some could say an unusual hatred of nature. Though most aren't aware this is what they do. Its not an appropriate thing to do if one is not hierarchical - if one does not wish to worship, bow down to some and disrespect others. If one believes it is right and human to treat everyone in equality then that must mean equal respect and so it is easiest to give up using them as then no one is upset and everyone is treated equally. Or possibly dont, but change them for powerful swear words which aren't disrespectful of sacred earth/life.
as for money no one is out of it.
that is the problem.
for those who consider it so.
for those who don't consider it so why would they be here on this blog.
but possibly they would be here if they perceived it as a threat.
but why would people who wished not to starve or be made homeless through lack of money be a threat. either by organising together acquiring land to live from without having to have money to do that, or by others richer who feel they would also like to use their money to do that too.
In this system where those above gain from those below,
- the best and only thing to do when one receives money is to give the money which represents stolen energy, back, and the best way of doing that is to use it to counter the dispossesion of land which has caused this wage slavery / human rental by repossessing the land for cooperatives with nurturing and permanent culture aims, which ultimately means moneyless sharing of the basics of lifes resource.
While at the same time influencing other social 'cooperative group forms' who already have land to also lessen their impact on others to also transition to a moneyless state of living.
Prices exclude, no prices don't.
I hope these books will in one swoop be doing both those things.
If that is the outcome, or a contribution to the outcome it is a dear sweet thing for all of us.
Life can be sweet when our needs are met.
It doesn't have to be seen as a threat to exchange and money, because there will probably always be those who wish to charge, and probably plenty who will buy from them their individual artistic artisan skill.
It's just that we need the choice of which economy to use. gift or money. At present the only one is money.
Excuse me if I was mistakenly presumptious of your antagonism.
Lousea comments ...
Good morning Mark
Do you know about the Reclaim the Fields event on the 8th and 9th March in the Forest of Dean? Lots of community food growers and land rights activists, so I think you'd get lots of input into your book. This is the RTF website http://www.reclaimthefields.org.uk/
I love a good pun title wise - what about Get your Free-econ a la Missy Elliot?
Love and light
Lousea
comments ...
hi Miranda, you still on here? now I'm back and sorting out my paperwork I can post the info. I was away and couldn't find who I'd emailed it to. now I'm back from my internet holiday, phew, and got back to my lovely nearly no net connection. so can find the original notes. I was interested in your link but the site was closed.
comments ...
Early on but to the middle of the 1900s in the Usa, George Borsodi and others worked on legal group structures for clt's community land trusts, and because they couldn't get any locks into the legal rules, they consistently found when the price of the properties rose the members sold out on the land trust focus and made off with their increased shares. Eventually the ideal most simple land trust form was developed in this country, UK, called the Ips housing coop which is par value and fully mutual. Now, the Ips bencom is the most common form used for larger community land trusts.
Once they have their land, they fund themselves through charging agreed rents to individual members and member groups who may be doing different activities on the land, growing, living, processing, building hire for courses etc , because they haven't as of yet got an awareness of rent as opposed to reducing costs and increasing sharing practise.
But they can be configured to run by decreasing rents to eventual sharing of costs, while working to decrease costs and so the need to charge.
In the main they hold up well, though still problems with carpet baggers do occur in some housing coops.
You have to be careful that one gets good members in the first place, and that is an important issue to address.
If one was thinking of no legal structure at all then examples of failure abound. Robert harts forest Garden is a prime example, and that didn't so much happen after he passed away, but during his life, he sadly chose what turned out to be rotten original co workers who managed gain majority ownership, to sour his later years and end any possibility of carrying the garden on afterwards.
If freeconomy land projects are to expand they will not be charitable trusts because the honest group form will have to follow the actual group form which is a fully mutual, where the trustees are the beneficieries.
A charitable trust is ok for a 'centre' but that is not what all the expanding Eco villages would be. If I was wrong on that I'd be doing a dance from now till next week and beyond.
because the charitable form is the ideal form, it is free giving, to people who are entrusted to carry out what the assets were given for.
Unfortunately the people who are entrusted, called the trustees cannot also be the beneficiaries to whom the money or assets were given to benefit. It's a bit of a do gooding form!
So the ideal form has to be found. At present the nearest is the housing coop.
And possibly an Ips bencom, a community benefit society.
Companies are not ideal.
You only really have two main forms, company which has trading roots, and Ips which has social roots.
Unfortunately it is easy to set up a companies rules, but expensive and wieldy to set up an Ips, which is probably the best form. I can't help thinking no-one really cares as there's money to be made in the knowledge of structure design and registration. I think that's the biggest reason why Ips coops and bencoms aren't massively taken up.
The reason why I comment is because this is very important for expansion of transition to Moneyless, groups.
The issue of how to get with and carry on working with like minded folk.
And the issue of legal form.
Additionally I don't like the subject much but realise how important it is for us, and would love to be working with others on this for the freeconomy, gift economy, so if anyone reading this is interested too, do reply.
Evelyn comments ...
Hi from Australia
Just finished your first book on living for a year without money. Has inspired me to continue with backyard self-sufficiency as much as is humanly possible. Haven't quite taken to skip diving yet but foraging is up there on my to try list. As for titles:
Outside the Square (ie. against societal norms)
Beyond the Future
A Guide for Simple Living
Second thoughts it is harder than you think to come up with a name that encompasses all you wish to convey without sounding twee.
Mark Boyle comments ...
I've decided on the title so no more suggestions needed - thank you for all so far!
The title is going to be:
The Moneyless Manifesto
comments ...
That's good, the title sounds right. I heard it last night but thought it was a take on man.
Two aspects that would be useful for me are
Technology: the constant technology addiction causing the growth of resource extraction,depletion, desertification , and it's causing of inequality. the inequality of access and the consequent inequality of benefit and inequality that causes of a competition which shouldn't even arise.additional to that the behaviour of technology creators in the provision of things designed to consume break down and so work against humanity and earth while filling they're pockets with numbers!.
While our real needs are beautiful life needs which have been able to be met over aeons of time prior to this 6000 year period and they are still the life needs we all are concerned about today, we haven't recognised how we constantly sell ourselves short. cheap.
and a listing, a periodic update, a totalling of all the earth damage we are doing to ourselves, in order that we can see what our actions are causing. In order to know why we need to change our actions in order to give us the reasons to act.
People are nurturing and heroic and will act for our good.
but not with a media which doesn't inform.
I don't particularly need that as I read and act anyway, but I'm not a good communicator at all and it would be very useful to have the information to show.
comments ...
That's good, the title sounds right. I heard it last night but thought it was a take on man.
Two aspects that would be useful for me are
Technology: the constant technology addiction causing the growth of resource extraction,depletion, desertification , and it's causing of inequality. the inequality of access and the consequent inequality of benefit and inequality that causes of a competition which shouldn't even arise.additional to that the behaviour of technology creators in the provision of things designed to consume break down and so work against humanity and earth while filling they're pockets with numbers!.
While our real needs are beautiful life needs which have been able to be met over aeons of time prior to this 6000 year period and they are still the life needs we all are concerned about today, we haven't recognised how we constantly sell ourselves short. cheap.
and a listing, a periodic update, a totalling of all the earth damage we are doing to ourselves, in order that we can see what our actions are causing. In order to know why we need to change our actions in order to give us the reasons to act.
People are nurturing and heroic and will act for our good.
but not with a media which doesn't inform.
I don't particularly need that as I read and act anyway, but I'm not a good communicator at all and it would be very useful to have the information to show.
Ana comments ...
I do agree with you Jason Palmer.
Personally I feel it was a betrayal and dishonesty the selling of the first book. A total contradiction to a moneyless society, how can Mark be preaching about moneyless and then tell the same people to buy his book? and how is Mark doing anything different from the money system we're living now?. He could have call it a transition to moneyless society, but not moneyless. I'm commited to moneyless as much as I can, and your books are far from my priorities. Alternatively would you use some job seeker allowance to start your community (use slavery to come out of slavery) would it be justify
A more appropiate title 'SELLING a moneyless manifesto'
Nikola comments ...
Hi mate my name is NIkola, Im from Serbia, and I wanted to ask, is there any chance to get your book The Monyeyless Man on e mail nikola.kucin@gmail.com in pdf, or in any other format, for free ? I would totaly understand If you can not send me book free, but it would mean a lot to me. Thanks in advance. Best regards to you and all other freeconomy members and friends.
comments ...
Hi Miranda,
This first info is about log cabins on land which already has a house on it, the info came from a successful commercial log cabin seller. He spent quite a bit of time going down to parliament to lobby for log cabins to be used in new build. He gave me the info for the smaller log cabins you can use on land which already has a house on it.
'You can ask about regulations but no planning is required for any amount of log cabins of a certain size that you can have on your land. (me -this is probably because it hasn't come up yet as an issue to be regulated. Polytunnels didn't use to have to have planning permission either until people made eye sores of them. Time and time again one sees restrictions coming in because of peoples ill consideration of others. Thus giving the excuse for regulation because of genuine breakdown of neighbourly harmony)
The size is Floor area no more than 30sq metres. No plumbing. Not more than 4metres high. Has to be more than 5metres away from the house. Cannot have a kitchen, but can have a utility room.' ( me - It'd be up to your imagination as to any discreet cupboard in it, or an outside little shed annex for what's missing!, and an outside tap.) Usually buildings outside the home which they find out are lived in such as caravans etc are treated by planning as an extra bedroom and the council tax for the house adjusted accordingly. So you have to be aware of problems that may ensue if instead of doing that, this type of outside building is given its own address to pay its own council tax etc, as proceedings will probably ensue as it will start to be seen as a separate new address.
Separate info from that above, about woodland.
This info came last summer from a family who moved from their house which they sold, to live in their 2.5 acre woodland living off grid low impact caring for their woodland.
You can have your dwelling on woodland, it is classed as a caravan (could be clad and insulated like log cabin). Max size 65' by 23'. 10ft floor to ceiling height. Must be moveable in one piece, (they said as long as it can be moved by a shifter!). Must not be fixed to concrete. Not even any posts its sitting on. Can be lived in for a forest season, which they said was decided in court to be 1 year less 1 day. People must be caring for the woodland but its not a stipulation to be dependant on it do income. No minimum size given for acreage of the woodland.
They said that the website downsizer.net is very useful. I notice it has land owners who have offered use of land.
I've also been looking at the contract that landshare have on their website for people who wish to arrange landshare with farmers and landowners to have their own allotments on land. It's quite a strict contract allowing for all kinds of rights but I reckon it wouldn't take too much rewording to use it for arranging to site a little plot for more than just an allotment, and the contract would be good for both the farmer and the sharer. Knocking on farm doors presenting it as a proposal for them, after first having done a mail out explaining landshare and how this would slightly differ could be productive. The preliminary mail out would be for the purpose of allowing the idea of it to sink in and be considered before one goes knocking.
Even just to get an allotment near to where one lives is good and to have that contract and the back up of the landshare website to be able to explain to the landowners the ins and outs of it would be helpful.
The other thing to add is the 28 day rule. If one has land, one can live on that land for a maximum of 28 days in the year. (who's counting?)
Derek Robertson comments ...
Hello Mark
Don't know if this has come up before but I recently attended a funeral, which I was informed, cost the best part of £4000 - and it seemed a pretty modest affair to me.
It seems as though shortly many of us won't be able to afford to die. I was wondering if you are looking into the very practical problem of how to go about a moneyless send off.
Good luck with the book.
Derek
miranda reply to comments comments ...
Hi Comments thank you so much for providing a wealth of interesting info Much appreciated forgot to look back till now http://www.freewebs.com/molijana/
again try my website it should be working fine thanx again mx
comments ...
Hi Miranda, thanks, after I posted that information I went to search for it, and it came up in a few places. The dimensions are 60 by 20 by 10ft.
One place among many for info is the page:
www.woods4sale.co.uk/planning_legislation.htm
'However, there is an
allowance for forestry workers
to live in caravans in woods
during a particular season
while carrying out forestry
work (see Part 5 of the
General Permitted
Development Order 1995).
The forestry worker must use
a caravan that fits the legal
definition (see above) but
there is no clear ruling on how
long a season can go on for; in
1993 the High Court merely
concluded that a season is
“less than a year”!'
Above that quote it talks about residential use, and that is very tight. Possibly the family that I talked to are all forestry workers.
Obviously one would have to do more research than this if it was seriously being considered.
Now that's funny I was intrigued to see the expression 'wakey wakey expect a miracle' somewhere else this morning!, but that was as far as this phone would allow me to go, then I got to your site and it was there but couldn't navigate the site, so will try laptop later, I'm looking forward to seeing.:)
magicalcat comments ...
Derek, regarding the funeral, we have discussed similar with my elderly mother in law, and looked into it. There is no need for such a great expense, there is a company that will provided a green and basic service for people who choose that path, you can google it. Savings can be cardboard coffin, no stone, no posh car, no church service, and to have the ashes taken care of at the crem where they use them to scatter on the shrubs and gardens.
The other way is to have enough land to deal with this yourself, although I understand it has to be declared if you sell your property. May not be so favourable a find if you decide to dig a pond!
Oh and the bloke who asked about the method of payment for the book...maybe you could pay the same way you paid to use the internet? This is not a perfect world yet, but each step forward is good. There is a saying, you cannot make an omelette without cracking some shells.
Tomi Astikainen comments ...
Two book recommendations to make sure your theoretical part is solid:
-Graeber, David: Debt - The first 5000 years
-Eisenstein, Charles: Sacred Economics
The latter you probably read already, just wanted to throw it out there to remind others.
Love,
Tomi
Anonymous comments ...
Well, here you're at it again. More books. Buy it.
Do you need to buy more land? Build renovate a house? Save up for your retirement?
Only one negative comment!!!!
Well said Ana, hope you're not just another disappointed lover of him.
Why just not make it an ebook free for all, "moneyless man" with the pockets lined.
Mark Boyle comments ...
@ Tomi - I agree, recommend both of those two.
@ Anonymous - you're making a presumption there won't be a "free ebook for all". If I told you there was going to be one, would it change your opinion of it?
magicalcat comments ...
looking forward to reading the book. As for the negative unhelpful comments, not sure what you are trying to achieve, if this makes you feel angry or unhappy, you have a choice, you can leave the site. Why do you want to be destructive?
Have a good think before you respond.
namaste
Paco Sanchez. comments ...
Hi Mark,
congratulations and thank you for having the courage and discipline for showing society that there is another (better) way of doing things.
I have one question for you, one that keeps bothering me when I think about the viable alternatives there are for not participating in this enslaving system that we have fallen into:
I have read you plan on buying some land as the next step for setting up a community. Wouldnt that mean validating the idea of Private Property? To accept that someone can actually claim to own a piece of Our earth..., isnt this one of the main problems that will keep a very big part of humanity permanently enslaved?
Paco Sanchez. Helsinki, Finland.
Julia comments ...
Less Money, More Life
or
Worth-while and worth-less
I was thinking of making a link to your previous title which gave me the first idea but I prefer the second one more.
jason palmer comments ...
hey, i am just joshing with mark, chill out people, people can buy his book or get it from the library, he is just 'getting the word out there'
ebooks are pretty useless, you have to go commercial to get the message out there
i learnt a lot from reading marks book and met great new friends from the freeconomy, all because money was used in a certain way
up with moneyless books, moneyless villages, green farms, eco plots etc. etc.
it all helps enrich the world, a nice big variety of things
Shaina comments ...
Hi Mark,
First year I had a greenhouse, I realized and understood for the first time the abundant nature of mother earth. Then I understood that I was asking or trying to get money in order to survive instead simply going after the things or situations I was really looking for. For example I needed money to buy food so the fridge was always empty...It was only when I realized I needed food and not money that I started thinking about how to get food. And then a completely different way of thinking and acting started. Now the fridge is full. This is ofcource only one example, my life changed in many more ways because of this shift in thinking. So that is why for the title of the book I would like to suggest the title, Life in abundance. There is so much of everything that money is the only thing that is scarce.
Tatiana comments ...
Hi Mark,
I think it would really help to have a free version and let people buy it if they want to. I came to you after a twitter search inspired by Charles Einstein book Sacred Economics. If you haven't read it yet, I definitely recommended and would love to read your review of it. If there is an free ebook coming, I'll wait for it and I might buy a copy from a retailer later, as I did with sacred economics.
Tatiana comments ...
oooppsss... and sorry about all the grammar/spelling mistakes...very tired right now.
Shezz85 comments ...
if you are not carefully u will alienate those u are trying to convert, your first book connected with the everyday man in the street you got to do it the same or you will be seen as another hippy extreemist??? maybe im wrong??
