Freeconomy Blog
Mon
02 Aug
The Moneyless Vrs Supporting small, local businesses Debate
| 64 comments |
At this point in history, would it not be more beneficial to support small, local, independent businesses rather than going completely moneyless and, therefore, 'opting out' of this political and economic model we find ourselves in? It's a very valid question and one I'm regularly asked by those who care about protecting the natural environment and building resilient local communities.
And the logic, in many respects, is sound. If everyone who is environmentally and socially aware gave up using money tomorrow, and therefore stopped supporting not just multinational corporations but small local businesses too, would we not just be left with homogenised High streets, even bigger big guys and fewer 'ethical' choices? It's an important and understandable question, and on the surface it would seem to make a lot of sense.
That is, I believe, until you unpick the language used in the crux of the argument, and question the trueness of it's basic assumptions: in other words, to question if 'small, local, independent businesses' actually exist to begin with.
First of all, lets take 'local'. What makes businesses local? Is it their geographical location? I live about ten miles from the main Cadbury factory. If I buy a Creme Egg or some Green & Black's Organic Chocolate (who are now owned by Cadbury, which is in turn owned by Kraft), does that mean I am supporting a local business? Or is the term referring to businesses who acquire 100% of their inputs from within 25 miles (or whatever one would classify as walking distance), and who subsequently spends 100% of their revenue with other local businesses who do the same (or if not 100%, what % is sufficient to classify it as 'local')?
If proponents of this argument mean the former geographical definition, then I feel it is deeply flawed logic. Every business is local to somebody. But to be fair, most don't. However, I would challenge those who mean the latter to find a single business who is, in reality, 'local' beyond just their geographical definition.
Whilst it is much better in many respects to support local businesses, we really need to take our head out of the tar sand and accept that apart from their geographical location, there is little local about them. The overwhelming majority of their inputs will be dependent on a global, industrialised economy that most of us will pay lip-service to wanting to stop supporting.
Take oil and plastics for a moment. We're all giving out about BP at the moment because of what has happened in the Gulf of Mexico. We were outraged against Shell in Ogoniland, Nigeria, and their complicity in the executions of peaceful protestors. Yet we still don't want to give up our dependency on them and our addiction to the way of life they have enabled us to have.
Even the smallest local business will end up funding the oil industry on our behalf and the ecological destruction it causes in so many ways, either through their use of petrol or diesel as fuel or the plastics in their packaging, fittings and technologies. And that's just scratching the surface.
To obtain this oil that we've become to depend upon, it involves many things. Firstly, those of us in countries with little or no remaining oil reserves (yet who live in economies extremely dependent on the stuff) have needed to engage in war to procure our requirements of cheap oil, and this will become increasingly so in the future as our demand for it continues to dwarf the new sources we find. To wage these economic, resource wars we need arms, nuclear deterrents, and the inevitable industries that go with those. For those industries to exist they need conflict, and I don't think it is too controversial of me to suggest that the arms industry actively encourages conflict. If there was peace worldwide, they'd be out of business overnight. And as many are publicly listed companies (PLCs), one of their only obligations is to maximise profits for its shareholders. This means they have an obligation to increase the need for arms worldwide. Hardly rocket science, is it?
Even if we do manage to procure cheap oil peacefully (though even without war it almost always involves political corruption) in the future, we still need to dig for it. This involves huge amounts of technology and machinery. All of which requires individual factories to make their component parts, all of which are made with even more machinery, which in turn is made by even more machinery (and so on), operated by people in factories made from building materials that certainly won't be local. All of these factory workers go to their often mono-skilled, monotonous jobs in cars, buses or trains that in turn need factories to produce them, and more factories to produce the machinery that produces their component parts.
And whilst I just picked the example of oil, the same will hold true for almost every part of their business and infrastructure. Whilst some of us will 'shop local' and feel good about ourselves because of it, are we just not getting our local businesses to do our global dirty work for us, hiding us from the realities of what we consume? Little of the money they receive will be spent locally; and it's hardly their fault either, they've got to operate in a competitive world and global economy just to survive. No local economy exists yet which doesn't depend on its big angry, competitive brother for the overwhelming majority of its goods and services.
So even for one organic greengrocer to sell one carrot grown by a local farmer (who uses a small tractor to grow the food and a small van to transport it) only fifteen miles away, it still requires an entire global infrastructure that is inherently, and massively, unsustainable to exist. That organic farmer will probably feel that his/her livelihood is environmentally sound, but it can only be so because some other poor bugger in the Middle East has to live a so-called 'unethical' lifestyle working in the oil industry just so that we can keep up our delusions on green-ness.
And it is also only possible for that small farmer to have cheap oil because the overwhelming majority of people (who many environmentalists will moan about) use far too much, otherwise the economies of scale that BP and Exxon-Mobil now benefit from would be greatly reduced, resulting in higher prices for all and less tax to pay for all our national services that we've become accustomed to, such as the highly industrialised NHS. Which in turn causes even more consequences.
Show me one local community that satisfies 100% of its own needs and produces zero waste, and I'll show you a community that has evolved beyond the need for money.
This leads me on to the next word of the original crux assumption: 'independent'. This word gets bandied around a lot in terms of small businesses, but what does it actually mean? In general, independence is one of the greatest myths sold to us; the reality is, we're all completely interdependent, on each other, micro-bacteria, earthworms, bees and everything else in this complex web of life.
In the context of business, who is truly independent? Almost all small businesses require loans at some point, the overwhelming majority from banks. The fractional reserve systems these banks use means that if one small business takes out one very small loan, say £20,000, then roughly ten times that will eventually be created out of thin air, which means that another £180,000 will be released into the economy to fund all sorts of businesses, which by its inflationary effect will tax every other person with savings in the country, into the bargain.
Few businesses can operate exactly as they wish. Even sole traders have their bosses - the bank, the competitive marketplace or the social culture they operate within which tells them that in order to be seen as successful they must be financially wealthy - all dictate to the sole trader. Most will rightly excuse some of their less ethical actions on the basis that the needs of the business must come first, otherwise they can't continue with some of the good work they do. I understand and accept this, I just don't agree that those businesses can retain the term 'independent' after they make these concessions.
Lets look at the last word of the original statement: small. Of course there are a few hard-liners out there who are small and want to stay small for various reasons, and I've huge respect for them. But does history not show us that most of them will do everything they can to grow, if for no other reason than to just survive in a competitive model in which you either expand or die? In effect, are many small business not just unsuccessful, wannabe big guys? This is the least relevant of the three, but it is overly naive to think that the little guy on the corner wouldn't become the hypermarket given half a chance.
It's still more ethical to support small businesses as it helps those people to survive, I'm just suggesting that their being small isn't always because of their philosophical beliefs. McDonalds started with one outlet, M&S with one market stall. Those who supported that little stall back in late nineteenth century probably had no idea how their purchases would effect the stall-holders of the twenty-first century. And the same applies to this generation.
This economic model we now operate in can never house true sustainability, equality or freedom. Therefore, is it one we should reinforce and waste on time trying to slightly improve? Or should be be looking at creating a whole new system, one village at a time?
If you are going to remain in the money economy, then of course it is much better environmentally and socially to support your local businesses instead of one who will drain the life out of the local area. And growing a few broad beans and tomatoes in your back garden is great, as it reduces your overall food miles and increases your connection to nature, which is the essential first step.
But please, let's not fall into the trap of fooling ourselves that if we localise in a few small ways, whilst still depending on the fundamentally destructive global system for the vast majority of our needs, then everything is going to be OK and we're all very green. It may make us feel better, but I'm not sure it will help the marine life in the next inevitable oil spill, those who live at sea level such as those in the Maldives, those in oil rich countries, or the wildlife in the rainforests that are disappearing by the second.
If we continue to support small businesses, as opposed to creating an infrastructure that is truly resilient to external shocks and the challenges we're now facing, then how on earth are we going to survive if we eventually experience economic and ecological meltdown. We'll spend our precious time flogging a dead horse, instead of doing what is truly required.
Choosing not to take part in this global economy and infrastructure is not about 'opting out'. It's about finally 'opting in' to a solution that is truly sustainable, truly local and one in which equality will actually be able to exist. The choice is yours.
(***Blogs such as this are often hard to write, as I know they can seem to offend even people close to me, though that is not my intention at all. I don't live outside of industrialisation myself yet (though the Freeconomy Village aims to), so this is a challenge to myself also. I just don't feel we should shirk the truth of the situation out of fear or ego, and I feel we should strive towards the ideal, even if we fall short every now and then.***)
THE FREECONOMY BLOG is written by Mark Boyle, who has been living for 20 months without money, and is the founder of the Freeconomy Community. He is the author of The Moneyless Man.
Comment on this Post:
Peter Buckley comments ...
Remember Animal Farm...
"The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."
Be careful not to sell your soul.
tread lightly comments ...
once again, a great insight into humans failings and definately "food for thought" i will be thinking about this and doing what i can out of my comfort zone to make sure i no longer participate in this throw away society. thanks again mark....keep up the good work
Tony Gosling comments ...
The world has to go moneyless as part of the evolution of civilisation.
Kali Tammik comments ...
What an awesome blog have to agree with you entirely. The 100% sustainable community is something to strive for, but it relies on people having the faith to believe it is possible in the first place and then to commit to building the infra-...structure necessary to sustain itself.Most ppl are still locked into the idea of Having to have money in order not just to survive, but live comfortably . We have become lazy in many ways and are not able to accept individual responsibility enough to get out of our comfort zones . Yet we live in hope :)Blessings K
Eko Chef comments ...
I strive, but am living with capitalists, they are my parents, now should i ignore the ppl who created me for the world I know exists (how else did we all get here?) or shud I strive to enable their transition (lessening my enjoyment of lif...e) from pure ignorance (the fact they didn't do it with conviction, knowing all about the possibility) of their own ability to grow their own food? BTW there is now a vegetable patch 5/6 times the size of the original one I proposed (3 yrs down the line) which was initially denied by the planners (my parents), but was created 'whilst they were sleepin'. Much like our capitalistic world today as the machines and less confident members of society, 'employees' plod metronomic-ally on...Being a Libra obviously the desire to balance effect is strong within me and I try to attach no blame, but when ignorance persists is it time to move completely and leave the legacy of change...? I think the time is now...
Gaia Quay comments ...
If we buy from small, local, non-franchise businesses, our money stays local for longer, thus helping our immediate social group. If we are frugal about spending, we are closer to the moneyless mark than the consumer-driven, every want satisfied mark. It is a sliding scale, after all.
Peter Buckley comments ...
Mark, you know you talk about this idea of a moneyless village that you want to create. Well, it's a huge and wonderful idea and I think Kali is right, you just need the right community members to make it... work.
However, no 'Utopia' will ever be simple. The difficulties in creating such a vision and moving it forward are tremendous and it will take a lot of hard work.
One of the big questions you need to ask yourself I think, (which you did here originally), is do you distance yourself from the 'Money society' or stay part of it? I's suggest the former, obviously, but it's so incredibly complicated to do that and I wonder if it's actually achievable? What happens when someone becomes ill and requires the services of the Welfare State that we are supposed to pay into from our earnings?
I used the quote from Animal Farm to remind ourselves of the evil that money causes. But is this just a fault of humanity, and human greed, and is that not something we should try and address first in a moneyless society, rather than break off all dealings with the moneyed world?
Just a thought :)
Mark Boyle comments ...
@ Peter - most of the core group for bringing the next stage of the process into fruition is now in place. We're fully prepared for all the difficulties - legal, emotional, physical, mental, cultural. If we're not prepared to do it, then w...ho are we waiting for? The idea of the first village is to create a model that can then be in part replicated by whoever else wants to, using our model and experience as a resource to use so they don't have to go through it all over again. Our aim is to break down the emotional, legal, mental, physical obstacles to moneyless living one-by-one, to make the path as easy for others, and as the concept grows to provide them with once-off funding also through the Charitable Trust, as long as they meet the objectives of the trust. Thanks Peter.
Seamus Bradley comments ...
Fine words again Mark, a couple of comments though:
It's fine discrediting the money system and the current economic model but I think it is important to appreciate that there have been many positive developments also. Whether or not these could have come about through an alternative system is another debate entirely but take for example your bike. The parts for it and the labour that built it are unlikely to be local yet you can enjoy their benefits. True, the specialisation of labour that the current economic model has fostered is probably a negative development in that it has moved people away from satisfaction of their own needs but do you conceed that at some point such specialisation is actually evidence of the flowering of human potential?
I understand that your initial argument above is in praise of an 'independent' business. You go on to state how in fact we are interdependent. There is a contradiction here that you seem to have missed; that it is the current economic model that promotes competition inherently. The fact that businesses must compete at present you acknowledge but is it not then the case that such independence is a bad thing?
Shaun Chamberlin comments ...
Great post Mark. You might be interested in this article by Marcin Gerwin exploring similar themes, and indeed coming to similar conclusions:
http://is.gd/e02zL
Mark Boyle comments ...
@ Shaun Chamberlain - fantastic article, he put it much better than I did. Essential reading.
Really looking forward to meeting up at the end of the month, I'll hopefully have a date soon, will let you know as soon as I do!
jason palmer comments ...
apples, use apples for barter, and home made cider, the apple is the answer :)
I think, anyway.
alison comments ...
I think you are right and the more people stop and consider the issues you have raised the better. Its good.
roland gopel comments ...
i have a few things to say on this topic.
firstly i'd like to say that i think its great that so many people are thinking about all this in the first place. with all the different people on planet earth there are bound to be a few differing viewpoints about the finer points and it appears that there are some points about which we're pretty much all in agreement
1.) the way things are is unsustainable, and therefore
2.) there needs to be change.
unfortunately this is where the agreement ceases. it is likely that this is the case because there are numberous facets to this issue that need to be firstly addressed and then some measure of agreement and "standards setting" nutted out.
technological innovation didn't just stop 10 years ago. it didn't stop 3 weeks ago either. nor has it stopped 5 minutes ago. nor will it EVER stop. the next really BIG thing that will be developed is not just a bigger and better TV. the next BIG thing will be domestic robots. such robots will be capable of cleaning our toilets, cooking our dinners (not at the same time i hope lol), growing our food, working in our mines, and working in whatever factories and shops and restaurants are left. how do i know this? i'm one of the people who has an interest in developing such robots along with electric cars and other sustainable technologies. i don't get paid for this work. i do this for fun!!!! i'm giving the arrival of mass produced domestic robots less than 10 years. you may think "so what". i'll spell out "so what" for everyone.
ok, in a nutshell, if robots are doing all the work then what paid work/employment is there left for the people? the simple answer is, none. so, if nobody is working and earning a wage then who is going to pay taxes? i mean you can't pay taxes on wages that are not being earned and you can't pay taxes on money that you don't spend (sales tax, VAT etc) if you haven't earned any money TO spend. so, if nobody is paying taxes then who is going to pay teachers and policemen and firemen and politicians etc etc etc.
another facet to this scenario is that if nobody is working then nobody is commuting to work. the oil industry would be wiped out. with that advent of global wireless mesh networking the telecommunications industry would also be wiped out. with electric cars being inherently simpler devices, the spare parts industry would become miniscule compared to what it is today. all manner of ancilliary industries would also largely be wiped out. robots working in mines or on farms or in factories don't have to come home for dinner.
i've said it before.... planet earth is no statue and neither are us human beings. there will be change, COUNT ON IT!!!! the real question is "what sort of change/world to we want?".
i would say that the bullies of the world would just LOVE totalitarian regimes of any and all flavours, where a select few own all the robots and the rest of the people will become "surplus to requirements". do i really need to spell out what this might mean? and lets face it, the world is heading in that direction at this point in time. and this is not the only danger we face. a hidden trap is one of waste or wastefulness. if robots do all the work there may be a propensity for many people to become exceedingly wasteful such as what we already see in many affluent areas. there are limits on how much wastefulness a society even with robot/automated workers can cope with.
alternatively we could indeed ALL have a wonderful life this way, but it would take some adjustment. i personally know a great many people who get bored without a job.
i think it would be wonderful to have the freedom to go anywhere and do anything we damned well please. and it IS all possible to have this all powered by renewable energy sources.
having separate nations and governments would no longer work in such an alternate scenario.
for the alternative to work the hierarchical social model needs to be largely discarded. such an alternate society could ONLY function properly with respectful and honourable people in it.
there have been a number of attempts at such societies/communities. surely everybody here has heard of hippy communes? well i guess perhaps i'm suggesting a nerdy global commune of sorts. there would be some people who would still be doctors but they would be that for the love of it. bands would produce music for the love of it.
personally, what would i do with each and every day to do with as i please? i'd learn to play some of these musical instruments that i've acquired over the years. i'd also learn and research more. i'd build some of my own furniture just for the sheer joy of it. i'd have a hand in designing better technology purely for the pleasure of it. i'd have a hand in designing teaching websites to help parents teach their kids learn. such 'teaching' websites would ensure a measure of standardisation of languages amongst other things. i would also put some effort into creating space craft that used different kinds of propulsion. i'd travel. see places that take my fancy. as you might imagine, the list goes on and on.
you may say i'm a dreamer but i'm quite surely not the only one ... now where have i heard that before? :D
btw - money then becomes rather meaningless at any rate
jason palmer comments ...
apples are the perfect unit of currency, you have to use them local, you can eat them, you can make cider from them, they encourage people to plant trees :)
Trish Young comments ...
@ roland gopel
I wondered what you consider to be our role in relationship to the natural world ?
oceanic comments ...
so much sense being spoken here.
it's difficult to face the reality and truly live with it. as i see it, the only honest response is radical change.
on a personal note, i'm nearing the jumping point myself. everything other than living moneyless is seeming hollow and pointless...a waste of energy and effort.
for me the issue of gp type doctors is not so important, having given up on them years ago but health issues are a concern.....do you have a herbalist? a surgeon?
what is the plan if someone is incapacitated? can the village support them?
what is the plan for emergency, life threatening issues (bad accidents, burst appendix, ectopic pregnancy, that type of thing)?
kali is correct, the personal dynamics will make the village work or not.
how are you taking care of this? do you have someone skilled in conflict resolution, NVC or similar?
so many questions! how do i properly get in touch with you about the possibility of being part of this?
Thom Browne comments ...
SHOULD BE THIS,!! SHOULD BE THAT!!.if? but? and maybe!.
Just do what you understand.. and that is your contribution to the change./\.
Karen Chard comments ...
Ken Fern - Plants for a future had a similar vision Mark, he might be a good person to connect with and discuss the bits that worked for him and the bits that didnt............
FooTaaBaa comments ...
My first thought is that when independent minds start zeroing in on the same position independently, it may be conceivable that real change will soon follow. Not exactly sure what that change will be, which is probably also a good thing (because if I could tell, so could "they").
I have known this for a long time, that our socio-political-economic system is deeply inter-connected. Pick any two production and consumption units, and you will discover I am sure, that they are linked through no more than half a dozen other such units (six degrees of sep). Some of whom would be the very instruments of destruction that are directly choking the life out of our planet. It is very difficult to keep ones hands clean. Not that this discounts completely any specific act of conscience, but we have to accept, for our own good, that what we are engaging in may be mechanically futile and merely symbolic. Because if we do that, then we may have a chance at discovering the answer. One that will lead to the world that is waiting to be born.
roland gopel comments ...
@ trish young
To be quite honest I hadn't given the 'natural world' much thought in this discussion. its a tricky question. I mean even the much-maligned oil is a part of the natural world, as are deserts and volcanoes and such. But I sus...pect that what you mean by “natural world” is all non-human life.
I think the biosphere 2 experiment was an extraordinarily useful experiment on so many levels.
Whether we like it or not we are part of the natural world too. We breathe in the oxygen that planet earth's plants breathe out. Consuming the worlds resources, both natural and mineral, at a rapacious rate cannot be good. It is unsustainable. Greed is unsustainable. If you had all the money in the entire universe you still couldn't buy an apple with it if there were no more apples left to buy. I think there needs to be more/better balance. There are a few influences that have shaped my thoughts on the “natural world” along with money, technology and society in general. Doccos: garbage warrior, zeitgeist movies, bill mollison's permaculture, 'the corporation'. Books: secret life of plants, hydroponics for everyone. Movies: soylent green, slient running, easyrider, THX1138, I robot, metropolis. There are many more but these spring readily to mind.
cheers
Martin comments ...
What rubbish. Utter misguided rubbish filled with strawmen. Oil is oil; it's not evil. It's a resource. It exists naturally in the earth. Same with money.
Really this is just getting infantile now.
And I don't see you typing your misbegotten and disingenuous nonsense on a copmputer that wasn't made from the same processes. You're happy to make use of that, even though someone paid for it for you. What a hypocrit.
Martin comments ...
"I think you are right and the more people stop and consider the issues you have raised the better. Its good. "
What issues? There are a million more pressing and serious things that should be addressed rather than the fantasy world of someone who isn't even being honest about his lifestyle.
tread lightly comments ...
im very disappointed with lots of the comments on here. im not into putting anyone down but some people who believe they get it and want to do this sort of thing then go right back to thinking how politicians would want us to think. money is an imaginary form of currency. it is worthless and its our warped view of looking at money which throws up questions like healthcare,etc and comments like oh yes but mark boyle has a computer therefore hes a hypocrite.....please look into the information which is available to everyone. dont believe what you are told, question everything you have ever been taught and look at discreprencies with an open mind. research things you believe as facts and you will find that many "facts" are merely phrases that have been repeated so often that we all believe them without looking at the information and coming to our own conclusion. mark boyle has an enthusiasm about this project because he has the sight to look past all of the conditioning and he can see it for what it really is. we believe that we have evolved so much in th e last 200 years that we have never had so much knowledge and we believe we know everything ther is to know. if there are still humans on this planet in a few hundred years time and the archaeologist uncover what we were doing and the fact we were all slaves to pieces of paper that we called "money" (it will definately be a thing of the past by then because we cant keep multiplying something that doesnt exist in the first place by 10 and come up wit higher figures than we first started with which was 0).....the truth of the matter is in the last 200 years we have worked out how to detroy the planet and our own bodies and we have been hell bent on using that information to destroy nature. these humans in the future will look back in disbelief.......i urge people to turn off their tv sets and research things and come to their own conclusions. my beliefs may be completely wrong so i am not attacking ppl that dont agree with me. i am just saying if you do your own research with an open mind, i can guarentee you will no longer believe the government version the tv's version (same thing) and the conclusion you come to will be your truth. even though i believe i get it i NEVER stop looking at what i believ from different angles and that way you realise some things you believe werent as straight forward and other things and beliefs become set in stone..... peace and love and happy researching x
oceanic comments ...
@ martin
READ THE BOOK!
mark is 100% honest about his life style.
no, oil is not evil. however, it is poisonous. it exists naturally within the earth and as long as it is left there it does no harm to anyone. however, extremely greedy people destroy wildlife habitats, poison oceans, displace local people and set countries to war in order to get at it. the products made from it fill more and more land with poisonous junk every year. we have all used it to build a completely unsustainable life style, a life style that can't continue without it. oil is finite. peak oil is now with us....that is we have reached the point where demand for oil far outstrips discovery of oil. what is left is difficult, dangerous and expensive to extract. need i continue?
"[oil] is a resource. It exists naturally in the earth. Same with money."
sorry, am i missing something here.....where be those money trees?!
money is a 100% man made concept, one that has lead us further and further away from our connection with nature and natural systems. we use money (and oil) to live lives that are completely divorced from reality. we use them to live packed together on a land base that can not support us, to consume more that the planet can support, to breed more humans than the planet can support.
our fascination with oil and money has warped reality to such a degree that basically, we are busy making ourselves extinct.
not too bright for a seemingly intelligent species!
mark may not have all the answers but he's doing his best given the limitations of the prevailing system. you got a better plan for getting out of the mess we're in?
@ roland gopel
re: 'the natural world'....check out the work of thomas berry ('the great work' is a good place to start).
we are the natural world! to think we are some how apart from or above it is a grand human delusion. a delusion that has led to us poisoning the very system we depend upon to give us life.
Jason Olshefsky comments ...
One thing to consider, Mark, is that your initial premise is to live a moneyless life. That does not forbid access to non-local resources. As such, what would a moneyless global economy look like?
In evolutionary processes, there are "local maxima", where any minor change would make things worse, but where there exists a superior alternative that would require a precise major change. That is my understanding of the moneyed world. It is highly optimized and provides the best it can, but there exists alternatives we don't know of that are superior (at least superior in some ways). You cite drawbacks to the moneyed system we generally use such as treating resources, humans, and life in general as "commodities", yet by stating your case, you draw fire from people demanding a complete solution.
Further, people are angered that you "take advantage" of the system -- that you exploit the benefits of the system we have (access to clean water and safe food, etc.) without contributing to its fuel source. We are trained to hate the individual who does this yet love the corporation that does the same. When goods are cheaper because they are produced by [essentially] slave labor, this is considered "good business"; yet if you bought slaves and had them perform your daily duties, this would be unconscionable.
What if money were subordinate to ethics? If it were subordinate to valuing humans, life, and resources? Perhaps I'm just dancing around the local maximum we're in.
Gwynnety comments ...
It may be hard to write, and painful to read, and I am no advocate of pain for pain's sake, but I also recognise the sanity the truth and the clear wisdom of your words. Thank you, for your clarity and for your love of peace.
Wurlitzer is comments ...
I have read some of the arguements against 'small business' . I can't flaw those arguements in terms of their links with big business etc. However those links exist even in the cashless economy. You are pictured next to a caravan, with a lap top powered by solar. Those things were made in the cash economy-how does it make it okay if they were given to you, were traded for without cash etc.? I think your ideas are generally good and very inspiring-I just don't think you can totally avoid the cash economy at the moment and I also don't think it matters if you don't as long as you try. A slow route out of the cash economy is probably better than a fast one.
Bryan Townsend comments ...
Hi!Met you in hay on wye.A small group of us here are trying to create a community garden here,with i might add some success.It is amazing to read this as it is touching on a discussion we had a few days ago,it almost spooky...Please carry on speaking this truth,it may not be comfortable for some,however,our discomfort in this way is little in comparrison to the majority in our world.I find it immensely helpfull,thank you for taking the time.Bryan..X
Martin comments ...
"READ THE BOOK!"
I have no intention of reading it. If he believed in living without money he'd have released the book as a free pdf not charging money for it.
"no, oil is not evil. however, it is poisonous. "
Lots of things are poison, doesn't mean they are unnatural. If you ingest mercury you won't get ver far either. What's your point?
"however, extremely greedy people destroy wildlife habitats, poison oceans, displace local people and set countries to war in order to get at it."
So legislate to deal with their actions. It's not the fault of oil if people behave irresponsibly anymore than it's the fault of money.
Do you think that a cashless society would be any different in respect of resources? Do you seriously mean to suggest that no one ever fought over land, food and resources before money was invented?
"the products made from it fill more and more land with poisonous junk every year. "
Some do, some don't. In time humans will create ways to recycle these products as well as better and cleaner sources of energy. This anti-oil luddism is just thinking stuck in the current paradigm.
"peak oil is now with us....that is we have reached the point where demand for oil far outstrips discovery of oil. "
That's a matter of opinion. New sources of oil will be found as old ones dry up. Oil by its very nature will constantly be generated.
"money is a 100% man made concept, one that has lead us further and further away from our connection with nature and natural systems. "
money is a system of trade, are yo usuggesting that trade takes us away from our connection with nature?
"we use money (and oil) to live lives that are completely divorced from reality. "
That's just nonsense.
"we use them to live packed together on a land base that can not support us, to consume more that the planet can support, to breed more humans than the planet can support."
You might do, but I don't.
"our fascination with oil and money has warped reality to such a degree that basically, we are busy making ourselves extinct."
Rubbish. Just pure speculative nonsense.
mark may not have all the answers but he's doing his best given the limitations of the prevailing system. you got a better plan for getting out of the mess we're in?
Val philp comments ...
Thanks Mark - Am a sole trader myself - EcoDecorating - just to point out one or two things - money has been around for centuries before the petrol engine was invented - its what we do with money that makes for a sustainable/ethical lifestyle - I don't have a problem with big companies providing their are checks and balances on them, and providing they don't squash those who are offering goods and services at a smaller/more local level. I am a small business and aim to be successful and make a good living at what i do- but for me its the job itself, the quality craftmanship, the people contact and the fact I'm using the most sustainable product is what is important to me. I turned down goin for mega -funding because it meant i had to embrace a vision of becoming a large company employer - i wanted to start small and grow as big as i could as a single craftsman, and take on others as the work built up in a sub-contract kind of way.
Having studied ancient civilisations their structures, growth and collapses- it is the amassing of surplus that gives some people/groups more ability to help others in times of crop failure / drought /floods etc. - this can be converted into monetry terms or simply used to barter/ exchange favour for favour - but this still leads to one person becoming dependent on another - for eg . if there is a huge need for potatoes in a community but a surplus of carpenters - the potatoe grower potentially has more value to that community/nation than the carpenter- the carpenters skills are devalued in that exchange scenario and unless he works for a potatoe grower he is in danger of starving. with or without money.
Also, re. the local farmer example in your article- if we take the opportunity to support, invest in sustainable technology the tractor / vehicles the farmer uses could be solar, hydrogen (water powered), electric and harmless. We are in a period of transition on energy sources and consumption- money is actually an extension of the exchange and barter system and allows great flexibilty in how we can make positive real change in the world.
I think in order to change lifestyles to make them more sustainable a personal sustainability consumption tax could be levied- so that those who overconsume in terms of energy, raw materials etc - have to pay into a system a sum proportionate to their consumption levels. Thus making it more painful for them to overconsume financially. This fund could be used to redress the poverty balance in parts of the world where they could do with help to get sustainable agriculture projects off the ground and protecting forest destruction.
Its the love of money thats a root of all harm/evil not money itself- the evil/harm originates in the human heart whether money is present or not.
Daniel Diniz comments ...
absolutely agree!
Though I'd like to point something that's somewhat missing from your general line of thought, and for that I'll quote Krishnamurti: "Change in society is of secondary importance; that will come about naturally, inevitably, when you as a human being bring about the change in yourself."
And with that I mean to say that, before WE CAN ALL begin to live differently, I believe each of us must undergo a change in ourselves. But even the fact that a few people already decided to start that change is awesome, and bring me joy beyond description.
Happy sharing the earth with you too!
Ben Sansam comments ...
I agree with Mark's analysis of the problems associated with the current monetary system. I also agree that having no monetary system would be better than carrying on with the present one. But wouldn't it be even better if we came up with a better system which gets rid of many of the problems caused by the current monetary system, but which allows us to manufacture bicycles, off-grid electical systems, perform complex surgical procedures, etc? Without some kind of bookeeping system, I think it would be near impossible to do things which we really really need to, as it would require extreme simplification of the means of production. I believe that ideas for such an economic system are out there. These ideas basically involve democratising the economy. Examples of such propositions are:
Inclusive Democracy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inclusive_Democracy
Participatory Economics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participatory_economics
Now i'm not saying that I agree with these examples in their entirety, but they flag up some interesting ideas, and show promise of a third way. Shall we look into this?
Blue skies, Ben
oceanic comments ...
@ martin
i'm sorry, i'm not sure if it's possible to have a discussion with you. your argument is exactly that, an argument....an angry reaction. you don't appear to have considered the subject matter at hand.
i'd be happy to lend you my copy of the book so that you could inform yourself about marks land trust and other facts about which you appear to be ignorant.
you may also find it beneficial and enlightening to read some peak oil literature, watch 'the power of community' + 'money as debt' and visit www.moneyreformparty.org.uk. this small bit of research would give you a basic grounding in the issues involved. without this grounding your getting yourself very worked up and cross for no purpose.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it"
- Aristotle
i don't come here to argue, i come to broaden my perspective. i wish you well.
michelle comments ...
After reading your latest blog i have realised that i am one of those people who buy local as it were and to be honest i had never thought about the wider industry, for example i get my milk from the local dairy instead of the supermarket which transports it up from bristol, but your article made think where did they get there plastic bottles? are we doomed from here is there no escape, if so i would want to find it, after a life changing experience this summer my partner and i are both giving up working in order to get other people rich and are intending to live a very frugal and basic life, but i feel its like contemplating the universe if you think about it too much you could go crazy, so to hell with it we will do our bit to the best of our ability and no matter how many normal people think we are crazy they can be dammed in there ignorance.
Trish Young comments ...
@roland gopel
Thanks for your long reply !
I asked the question because I was interested to see how you thought such technological developments as robots fitted into a caring and responsible relationship with the earth.
So although not on the subject of local business or intentional money free , that's how it came about !
Yes sustainable technology is great, so long as it is so not just sustainable in the materials used but also in its effect for other life (obviously) !
I should have put "our relationship to the rest of the natural world" We forgot that we were just a part and it was a part of us, we became so separated, dis - integrated !
Oil is as you say, of the natural world , a substance produced by the earth, a substance that we have used in a way that is exceedingly damaging to life on earth. Oil must have been produced by the earth for its own purposes, and even if it wasn't running out it is not a feasible for us to use as we have .
Thanks particularly for reminders of Bill Mollison and The Secret Life of Plants,which I've not yet read and Mike Reynolds is one of my heroes !
Martin comments ...
"i'd be happy to lend you my copy of the book so that you could inform yourself about marks land trust and other facts about which you appear to be ignorant. "
Mark never answers the questions, evades every attempt at asking and I've no desire to read that book. If he genuinely wanted a moneyless world he'd have produced it as a pdf. Not once has anyone explained how society would function without money - half the population would starve overnight.
How does a moneyless society help the people of Pakistan? How else can aid get on the ground qcuikly without the funding made available through electronic money transfers and people making donations at their post office. Just ridiculous. Wanting to get rid of money is the most appalling kind of Luddism i've ever heard; it would turn society back thousands of years and spits in the face of everythign we have achieved this far, including the space for people to come up with the idea they want to live without money (which is not what is happening here).
You want to discuss wealth distrubtion and social justice then do so. Anything else is evasive and risible.
frantasia comments ...
Val philp :
Excellent post and well expressed.
Gaia Quay: I agree - money spent locally will benefit locally.
Matt Rhys-Roberts comments ...
Great post Mark, I accept the challenges put forth in your article, and I agree we need to motivate ourselves towards more localised self-sufficiency and an ecocentric economy.
To shake things up a bit, is there a list of UK projects are already engaged in achieving these aims? I for one am hoping to soon join a permaculture & woodland landshare cooperative, which will have minimal reliance on grid power, fossil fuel or foreign monoculture plantations. We shall certainly be looking at the successes and failures of other such groups and communities, so as not to repeat history!
Keep up the inspiring clarity,
Matt.
hollie comments ...
@ martin - i have to disagree about the book not being free! in its current packaged form it isnt free BUT all the information from the book are all FREELY avaliable to be found in this very blog and in the guardian site blog.
hollie comments ...
tough question. right at this moment i cannot go entirely moneyless. but one thing i do is spend less and keep my money local.
for me by keeping the money i spend local, it enables me to build relationships with the local shopkeepers and shoppers.
i know the ladys in my knitting/wool shop quite well and the help me out when im stuck with my knitting stitches or other sewing problem - the big chains dont offer that one to one free help ( i tried and failed)
the green grocers help me out just by being able to talk - tesco is too clinical and in the big shops most of the staff arent as local as you think. they also provide me with veg crates and the like that would other wise get thrown out.
all the local shopkeepers live in my local area and that is valuable in its self.
we want to change from the current system to a much more local, sustainable system but one of the first things we should be doing is supporting the local skills we need. by buying local you are ensuring certain skills in the area thrive and are there ready. if we keep getting goods from the larger / commercial shops, who generally import from abroad, we are losing these local skills. these are everything from spinning, farming to paper making and everything else in between.
just try finding a local knitter who can run you up a hand knitted pair of socks or spin you some yarn.
marianne huntington comments ...
hi Mark,
I hope you are well. As you know I am a huge fan of your theory and I look forward to living the more organic lifestyle. However, I think, and i'm sure it has been said, that living completely without money is sort of post apocalyptic.
I know everyone needs to be more conscientious of how much we consume as we are headed for a huge reckoning if we don't slow down. But if it happens all at once, it could be incredibly devistating to many people as our economy cannot handle it. but I suppose the sooner we fall, the sooner we can start rising, organically of course.
Something to teach the kids now as it will be their future, but not our present. Then again, who knows what could happen.
All I know is that I can't wait to start growing my own arugala and mustard leaves, and of course, green beens. The best salad I ever had! I may call upon you to give me a few tips.
MH
Steve Moyer comments ...
Change is constant. The question is one of the direction of movement. Are you heading towards liberation FROM money or bondage TO money?
Are you moving into "addiction to money" or into "freedom from money?"
Heiko comments ...
Well put. It's good of you to acknowledge that even you don't live outside industrialisation yet. It's always going to be a question of degrees. I'm not quite where you are yet, but not far off. The trouble is it helps to have money to go that step further to make yourself independent of it, if you get my drift. I'd like to be able to buy solar panels for instance to get off the power grid. But hey, one step at a time. You'll need money to create your village.
As I was just saying to someone else, I live in a village in Italy where many of the Freeconomy principles are in place and have been for generations. It's not so much a new idea, but a very old one.
JackieD comments ...
I agree wholeheartedly, we can't go on moaning about industrialisation and its consequences and still benefit from all of its products.
Claire Milne comments ...
Thanks so much for this Mark - a really important issue to explore if we are going make the shift to resilience. It's certainly easy to conflate small and independent will inevitably meaning 'good' and sustainable.
I for one will always prefer small and independent shops over chain stores because they a) add diversity to our lives and b) they are run by individuals who can listen to their customers and treat them as people rather than just as 'consumers'.
However, the Transition to a resilient society based on LOVE and compassion and that allows us live on this planet in the future requires small, independent shops and community enterprises to seriously raise the bar.
My work is around food and as much as I detest the supermarkets I find it hard to defend small shops that sell little else than booze, fags, chocolate and sweets and whose (lack of) 'ambience' leaves you wishing you hadn't bothered ... we need small, independent shops to do what they do with passion and zeal - not simply be in it for the money. Defending such businesses in the face of supermarkets is doing a serious injustice to those independent shops that are working hard to compete with the supermarkets whilst providing sustainably sourced products at a time when oil is still cheap enough for market forces to clearly favour unsustainable practices.
With the era of cheap oil over and oil prices set to sky rocket though, the cost of almost everything is going to increase dramatically. This means it is essential we get our basic needs like food, water, shelter and education back into the hands of communities - and out of the hands of corporations who will always put profit ahead of the needs of the community because they have a legal obligation to return the highest dividends to their shareholders (and because NO-ONE within corporations sees themselves as responsible for the business' impacts).
Looking specifically at food - the only reason, surely, that we have developed such a ludicrous food system that sees food being flown to all corners of the globe in search of ever more cost saving due to cheap oil and appalling labour standards in desperately poor countries - is because we have become so disconnected from the impacts of the food choices we make. Surely if we re-localised our food system, eating as far as possible food grown locally, if not regionally, we would become painfully aware of these impacts - of how our penny-pinching around food is destroying the livelihoods of small farmers both here and more devastatingly in the world's poorest countries. That our perception that organic free-range meat is too expensive allows the inhumane and inconceivable treatment of animals. That the use of chemicals to offer us cheaper prices and exotic foods all year round - in the name of more profit for greedy shareholders, is wreaking havoc on our health and that of communities the world over.
As oil and therefore food prices start to increase there will simply not be the room for the profit margins currently enjoyed by the supermarkets and big food companies. Maintaining these profits, which of course they will be intent on doing, will mean the price of food sky-rocketing to the extent that people will simply starve. Unless that is, we support small, independent shops who are sourcing from local farmers and producers who are doing their best to move away from dependence on carbon - and who are connected with their local community in a way that allows us to know they care about the impact of what they produce.
What's more, we need to see community food projects scale up to become commercially viable alternatives to the supermarkets. This does not mean 'if you can't beat them join'. It means recognising that the only way we will get rid of supermarkets is if we provide truly sustainable alternatives that people will use. I am not talking about green wash. I am talking about community enterprises whose aim is to provide healthy, local food at affordable prices which pay wages to allow people to live.
For me the way forward is social enterprise (legally known as Community Interest Companies (CIC).) These are businesses that over and above paying fair wages (or produce) and covering overheads, plough all their profits back into the business to make it more ethical and / or more affordable for the community.
My interim vision, before we all become money-less like Mark, is that all businesses have to become social enterprises ... imagine that ... and you know what: it's totally possible if we want it to happen. Remember, as customers we have so much power to shape what shops do - particularly independent shops. So make sure you get to know your shop keepers and let them know what you want them to stock ... tell them you think they should stop selling non-free range eggs, tell them you want locally produced veg and organic meat ... and get your friends and family to tell them too ... hey why not ask them if they would run a survey to see if people would be willing to pay the extra for organic meat / local veg etc And be sure to support any shops in your community that are being courageous enough to source sustainably - they will only survive if we shop in them.
It's up to us folks ... the change is only gonna happen if we believe it will and do our bit to make it into a reality. And remember: "Another world is not only possible, but on a quiet day I can hear her breathing." Arundhati Roy.
Mark Boyle comments ...
Here is the latest Freeconomy blog on the Guardian, looking at land for free and introducing the concept of lawful rebellion, planning and land reform into the moneyless debate. Check it out at
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/green-living-blog/2010/aug/10/sustainable-housing-environment
alex comments ...
I left the UK almost exactly three years ago to live as self sufficiently as possible on 10.5 acres, in yurts. I've a few things since then, two of which are: One smallminded bureaucrat in just the wrong place is enough to stop even the most forward-thinking project getting on the ground; and two, there is still a legal requirement to use money for things like taxes and insurance. I haven't read your book, but I'd be interested to hear if you've found a way around this, or know of an insurance company who will accept free-range eggs and hand-made sausages in exchange for their services.
forestbitch comments ...
Mark, I just wanted to acknowledge your sincere, thoughtful and heartfelt "moneyless v small business..." Mainly how hard it is to write something that may "offend those close". THIS is something I am seeing, feeling everywhere..and how difficult it makes for real, honest discussions.. on anything at all.
Martin comments ...
"@ martin - i have to disagree about the book not being free! in its current packaged form it isnt free BUT all the information from the book are all FREELY avaliable to be found in this very blog and in the guardian site blog. "
If that's true then that's the greatest hypocrisy or the most extraordinary error of judgement.
Lyssa M comments ...
Well to my mind independant businesses or shopping local means supporting the local producers and shops like one that just shut down in the town centre which was owned by a local man, selling local produce. I wouldn't expect you to shop locally as you have your own ways and trying to do something... also your moneyless lifestyle is gonna to have way more impact to make people stop and think of their own lifestyles than simply shopping locally would!!
Tho I'm not in the UK at the moment so I have to say my shopping locally is just that!! The watermelon was probably grown just a few metres away, lol... there are little market stalls selling what people have too much of... and yes, Jason Palmer... there's apples too! pmsl!
@Jason Palmer.... Your Apple currency theory is fatally flawed.... I have at least 8 apple trees in the wild between my house and my children's school... and one in my mum's house so why on earth would I want someone paying me for something with apples?!! Plus what about when they are out of season.... mind you if Apples WERE currency the uk would be the richest country in the world, lol!
Hi Mark comments ...
Forget about offending people... as Stephen Fry said people tend to think they can say "What you said offends me", and expect that to matter. If someone's offended by your opinion then it doesn't matter... screw them... they just need to grow up.
Martin + oil comments ...
Sorry Martin but you need an education. Oil takes millions of years (e.g. 150 million years) to come in to existence via nature... we are using it far more quickly than that. We have been using oil for a few hundred years.
Basically we are using oil at least 100,000 times quicker than it is created. That's what people mean when they say oil is not renewable... duh!
Sorry for appearing a bit rude but you come across as so self-righteous and all knowing that I think that my response is reasonable under the circumstances... have some of your own medicine that you are giving other people.
Martin comments ...
"Sorry Martin but you need an education. Oil takes millions of years (e.g. 150 million years) to come in to existence via nature... we are using it far more quickly than that. We have been using oil for a few hundred years."
That's as maybe, i'm not really that bothered. Science and technology will provide answers and we will simply find or adapt to something else if and when oil runs out.
Unfortunately living without money means living without science and technology which is a ridiculous position to be in.
hollie comments ...
@ martin - sorry i should have elaborated it was a rushed post- the vast majority of marks moneyless experience is on this blog, it is free to access. the book contains a lot of this information and then some. you could easily get by through reading the blog if you choose. but there is much in the book i have yet to find on here.
maybe you should go back and read a few entries- it might then explain why the book isnt free - but the blog is . so there is no hypocrisy just carefully weighed up options.
Dr Steve Bell comments ...
I've just read Small is Beautiful by E.F Schumacher as recommended to me by Mark. This book is equally as though provoking and honest as Mark's own book The Moneyless Man which I read at the same time. How do the two sets of ideas sit together please Mark? What type of economy do you propose?
Frederick Dsouza comments ...
@Mark I would like to recommend you a rehabilitation center for money addict just like they have for drug addict etc.
Joe comments ...
Awesome article, I just found your blog / web site. Not unlike you I started on my journey to a gift economy about 18 months ago. Yet I am struggling to find that balance and of course places to live. I suspect that those of us who are trying to do this action are finding the same struggle. Thanks for your support
joe comments ...
Hey Mark check this out, it has 6 parts to it and is very close to a community that is free from money. Its important that you watch all 6 parts to get the full picture
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8zoOzk4DsU
Antonio Barcelona comments ...
Hello. I Think you can translate this page
Hola Marc. He visto el articulo que te ha dedicdo "El Pais" de España y me han surgido muchas preguntas. La primera ¿por que haces esto?.Uno puede pensar que te situas en un mundo futuro, despues de una hecatombe, y estas probando medios de subsistencia. Por otra parte es muy dificil mantener tu esplendida estructura muscalar sole a base de hierbas y setas. No es facil subsistir a los inviernos de la zona de Bath si no se parte ya de una constitucion tan fuerte como la tuya.
La falta de comunicacionn y contacto personal es muy grave y no me creo que lo puedas substitur con las redes sociales de internet y un Blog. Yo creo que es una experiencia muy interesante pero de tiempo limitado.
En cuanto a no emplear el dinero has de reconocer que para instalar lo que has hecho has tenido que partir de una cierta cantidad. Y luego que se te ve una buena educacion universitaria y humana que te ha servido para buscarte recursos sin utilizar dinero.
Bueno Marc gracias por el gran ejemplo que nos das a todos. Me gustaria hablar contigo aunque mi ingles es nuy malo. Recibe todo el amor, un abrazo y los besos de
Antonio
M_In_O_Town comments ...
I told some friends in the U.K. about you in a chatroom and almost immediately they went into the "Yeah, but I gotta have my creature comforts" mode lol. We're spoiled and we inavertently screwed up using what wits we had and using the technology that was on hand at the time. That's "evolution" for you. I only hope more people start reading blogs like these and start to rethink things.
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