Freeconomy Blog
Sat
08 Aug
How do you see money?
| 23 comments |
Contrary to most people's understanding, I am not the first person to live without money. Firstly, you have the fact that for just over 95% of humanity's time on planet Earth, the concept of money didn't even exist, just like for the most part of the 20th Century the internet or mobile phones didn't exist; yet, just like money, the masses believe they couldn't live without these technological 'advances' now either. On top of that, you have the fact that every other species on the planet - birds, elephants, earthworms, even Bengal Tigers - have always lived without credit or debt, even in this domesticated planet we live on now. It sounds a bit obvious saying that animals live without money - of course they do. But why then does it sound so stupid to say that we humans, also animals, can live without it also.
However, all this aside, I am not even the only person in contemporary society to be doing so. In fact I am a complete rookie compared to two others I am aware off. One of them, Heidimarie Schwermer, a woman of 67 years, has being living without money in Germany for 13 years. She has a film coming out in February next year, where she talks about her rationale for leaving a highly lucrative job as a pyschotherapist to the way she has chosen to live now. She also wrote a book about it but is little known and only in German - even I had trouble finding her.
However one guy who no longer is little known is Daniel Suelo, who lives moneyless in the US. He has been living without money for over 8 years now, again putting my miniscule 8 months into its proper perspective. I hadn't heard of Suelo before I started living without debt and credit myself, but a few weeks in I came across this very interesting guy. I always read his blog but at that point he seemed to have very few readers or people interested in what he was doing, even after 8 years.
That all changed a couple of weeks ago as Daniel became a bit of an internet sensation. Details magazine ran a story on this 'caveman' and from that MSN ran with the story on their homepage, and interest went from zero (just like his bank balance) to millions overnight. His blog, just like this one when I started living without money, became a forum where intense debate and a lot of cynics who, without taking a moment to try to understand his motives, felt it their duty to tell him what a low-life he was. Who would ever have thought having a zero carbon footprint in a climate changing world would be such a social crime?
Anyway I have been aware of Suelo's views for a while now, and I thought I should share a couple of them with you. The below are not my views and I am not saying in the slighest that I agree with all of them, but I thought it would be really useful to give you another perspective on why people such as Suelo, Heidimarie and myself see living without the illusion of debt and credit as being crucial to our future survival on this finite planet.
Suelo on 'debt and credit'...
"I had an itchy on my face this morning and my hand scratched it. The hand didn't think that the face owes it something in return, as it knows it is all part of the same body and that each part gives to the whole what it can, in service."
Suelo on 'living without money'...
"To say that I live without money isn't saying anything, really. That's like saying I live without belief in Santa Claus. Now, if we lived in a world where everybody believed in Santa Claus, you might think I'm stepping out on a limb to live without Santa Claus"
Suelo when asked 'Do you think money is evil?':
"No. Money is illusion. Illusion is neither good nor evil. Imagine if you had eyes that saw reality rather than your own belief. Imagine if you saw a $100 bill as a piece of paper with a pretty work of art on it, and nothing else... One time I found a $20 bill and decided to play with it in this way. I cut it up and made a collage out of it."
Sioux Indian, John Lame Deer, summarised how he felt about being made to use money - and hence become 'civilised' - by the white man when he said...
"Before our white brothers came to civilize us we had no jails. Therefore we had no criminals. You can’t have criminals without a jail. We had no locks or keys, and so we had no thieves. If a man was so poor that he had no horse, tipi or blanket, someone gave him these things. We were too uncivilized to set much value on personal belongings. We wanted to have things only in order to give them away. We had no money, and therefore a man’s worth couldn’t be measured by it. We had no written law, no attorney or politicians, therefore we couldn’t cheat. We were in a really bad way before the white man came, and I don’t know how we managed to get along without the basic things which, we are told, are absolutely necessary to make a civilized society."
Myself and Suelo and Heidemaire all share the same philosophy, though we have differences in how we express it fully. If you don't understand why on earth I would choose to live like this, then I'd suggest you maybe read the freeconomy philosofree as a good starting point.
What are your views on money? What do you think of Suelo's (or my) views? Can you see us ever living sustainably - and I mean truly sustainably - whilst we still use a global (or even local) currency? Or can you ever see the symptoms such as environmental destruction, factory farms, sweatshops, wars clear up whilst money allows the consumer to never see the consequences of his or her consuming? And if giving up money is not the answer to the environmental crisis we are now experiencing, then what do you think is? What is your vision, your part of the solution?
THE FREECONOMY BLOG is written by Mark Boyle, founder member of the Freeconomy Community.
Comment on this Post:
LyssaM comments ...
I LOVE the way Suelo words his views... simple and to the point,
With regards money... I don't know... a part of me keeps thinking... "but this laptop you type on would not exist without money... " and things like that. And other things like books and clothes... one person can not do everything.. I've started making clothes for my girls... but not yet that good, lol... so I must buy them, and shoes I wouldn't know where to begin (unfortunately my Grandad passed away, he knew how to and had all the equipment... he also made furniture such as the chest of drawers I keep my daughters' clothes in, even tho it matches NOTHING in the house, lol)
To me money is not so much the evil but that people abuse it... for example when the idea of money was first used... and people like me could sell their excess produce (if I could stop the kids from completely devouring it, that is, lol) and with my coins buy the shoes on their feet ect.
Tho I suppose the ideal would not be living like yourself, but living in a community with the same ideals... e.g. not asking money for our services... knowing others will give freely without demanding for theirs... that would be nice.
Navath comments ...
What happens if you had an accident or were seriously ill that you have to be admitted in a hospital? How would you pay? Or what if any of your family members were ill?
Sarah Stricker comments ...
Lyssa, something I have been asking myself recently is why can't we have many of the same technologies we have today without money? I mean, if we had no money at all, that doesn't mean we couldn't have technology. If money disappeared, the knowledge of how to make a computer would not disappear.
And just because a person doesn't have money does not mean they have to be completely self-sufficient, making all their own furniture and clothing and such. Other people could still do that for you.
What would change is how we decide who "gets" to have stuff. Now it is easy, we know we are "worthy" to get a laptop because we have the precise number of dollar bills. So without money, how would we decide who gets to have which stuff? That's where my brain starts to short-circuit.
Mark comments ...
Navath - I believe in living so healthily that healthcare is very marginal. I've never been as healthy and fit as I feel this year. But yes doing this in isolation, by myself, would mean that if something did happen to me I wouldn't have much help at hand, outside of friends and local freeconomists, so it could be a problem. But my vision for the future is to have real life freeconomy communities, which would be communities with a diverse bunch of skills, including skills such as herbalism, homoeopathy, doctors etc. They would play as much a part in the community as the person who grows the food and the person who builds the house. Each would give what they can in service to other people, making it a 'giving' community as opposed to the take-take-take society that depresses so many people today. Lyssa - yes I use this computer as a transtional tool, if there weren't issues in the world to speak up for and if we all lived in a sustainable way I wouldn't have to use it anyway - this laptop doesn't put food in my belly, it just creates more work for me (!), so if we all went moneyless I would gladly never type another word again! Sarah Stricker - thanks for your excellent comment, I agree wholeheartedly with what you said. I would add though that things like computers and modern technology can only come into existence through the economies of scale that industrialisation have allowed. They are inherently unsustainable and so I would say that to think of ways to decide who gets them has gone a step too far. It is my very humble opinion that if it cannot be made locally by local people then we really shouldn't be producing them. It sounds extreme but we are in the environmental and climatic crisis we are in because of industrialisation. Money has come to replace reputation in a world that has grown to big. Small is beautiful, small is sustainable.
Navath comments ...
Thanks Mark. But I seriously feel that it is not the money; but the greed that is the cause of all problems. Money is just a tool. Its a common denominator for exchange. Like if I have banana and you have an apple, and I wanted the apple but you don't want the banana; money can help solve this problem...
LyssaM comments ...
Sarah: I know the knowledge wouldn't leave us... but how would we get the supplies needed to build the computers? As to how we see who's worthy... well I think making them available to all... much like you can go to the library and use computers so everyone has access cos in the modern world I think they are actually very important because we have now spread out so much, my husband is Albanian so we have family in Greece, Italy, England and Albania... and my best friend emigrated to New Zealand... so where as my husband went almost 10 years never seeing his mother thanks to wonders of technology can now see her everyday from the comfort of his home... oh things like clothes... well we're all worthy of clothes, arn't we? And of food... the main point is not who is worthy but taking out the greed... e.g. not overeatting, not accumilating millions of clothes you really don't need.. (I already do REALLY well with this as I HATE clothes shopping so only buy a pair jeans every few years when my last ones have got holes in, lol)
Mark: if you never typed another word again, what would I read in the morning? lol. But I totally understand that it is needed to spread the word and also so much is to be learn using the computers... these days no one teaches their kids about the wild food out there (apart from blackberries) and so as adults they have no knowledge, like me... I've learnt alot from the pictures and advise about wild food alone, like the other week I discovered that for the last five years I have had a hazelnut tree at the bottom of my street and knew nothing of it!! never knew what they look like, lol. And you yourself have family in Ireland, don't you? so surely you'd rather keep the computer to talk to them? Of course in this ideal community we probably wouldn't need it nearly as much, ideally having so many different people with different experience we can call upon and use it only for conversing. Oh and another point about computers... well we have a laptop and a pc (the pc stopped working and then bought the laptop only for the pc to start working again!!) and my bil has a pc and then at his work they were throwing out a whole load that still work so he took one for his parents, leaving about 20 more in the skip... my sister's work replaced their computers and my sister took one for our brother... my point being... to be honest, tho they wouldn't get ever slimer and ever faster ect, ect, I believe we have PLENTY of computers in this country anyway so that if we all gave up money we would STILL all have computer access!
Meera comments ...
The present concept of money is completely insane, I think. We get the farmers to grow food for us and pay the cost (may be more or less) but it never reaches them entirely. What they get for feeding the whole country is a miniscule amount which isn't sometimes even enough for relieving their own hunger! I'm Indian and I'm regretful to say that farmers here are one of the most low-paid people in the country. And what are they suffering for? For feeding us? That's crazy! If markets would have been places where the actual farmers sold their excess produce, it would have been okay. But it's not yet wholly so (there are some though). As to other technologies...whatever great usefulness one has, it always some extent of pollution, which is also very dangerous in this climate changing time! And do not forget that when you don't use technologies, it includes planes which means you no more have known relatives abroad, therefore leaving no use of communication technologies too. In this 'transitional' period we need them though. So, we must use it only to an reasonable extent.
LyssaM comments ...
Meera: that's some very good points.... about it being just this transitional period... and that in a good few years or generations we wouldn't need them.
And you're also right about the farmers... in England there are farmers that are giving up because they are struggling just to cut even and alot don't make ANY profit from the produce they sell but get money from the government to top up or something... it was on the news a good while ago and I really felt for them... you'd think with food in our stomachs being the most important thing that we'd put more into the hands of those that put it their rather than in the hands of those that produce the luxeries we take for granted who already have too much.
Ollie comments ...
I'd love to have the courage to live without money. I have a friend who is unemployed. He's finding the time to work on his music and record an album at home, something I'd love to do but find my dayjob gets in the way. I agree that money is the cause of a great deal of problems. I love the quote from John Lame Deer! I'm encouraged to learn that for 95% of humanity's existence we've not had money. Most people I talk with about abolishing money say that we can't because we've always had it. I knew that wasn't correct, but didn't know to what extent!
I think a lot of Mark's views are very similar to the Zeitgeist movement. Their aim is to live without money, and to live within the Earth's finite resources.
des troy comments ...
There is a scene in a Star Trek movie where a genius from the twentieth century is transported into the future on onto the Enterprise. He is fascinated with the technology but then asks one of the crew how much they earn. The crew member looks confused and replies they abandoned the concept of money centuries ago.
Unfortunately, he didn't then go on to explain how the concept was replaced. And this is the key. What mechanism replaces money? How about 'Love over gold'?
Kim S. comments ...
My husband and I had a long discussion about this. Here are my thoughts from that talk:
Money is NOT evil, nor is it a problem. It is only a tool. The problems are banks, corporations and the mass marketing machine which have resulted in a colossal shift in priorities in the first world. So it's not money that's the problem, but consumerism. Companies make a product (which we largely don't need) in large amounts and then marketing creates an artificial "need" for the product. You know yourself Mark, how very little we actually NEED. And this also divides families. This whole idea of "you deserve" that marketers have been selling since the '50s creates mass selfishness and greed.
Also, the fact that money is so portable, creates more crime and fear. It's much easier to steal $2000 than it is to steal a horse worth that much, for example. You begin to believe that everyone else WANTS what you believe you DESERVE. It's all just a massive perversion of priorities. How do you fix that? Inspire one person at a time to dream not of how much they want, but of how little they need.
My father used to say that compound interest is a tool of the devil. I don't believe in the devil, but I agree with his premise. Oh, and my husband wanted me to remind you that Natives in NA did have money. It was called wampum, and operated very much like our money today.
Kim S. comments ...
I will have to correct my husband. In the case of wampum, it was Europeans that manipulated it into a currency and mass produced it to lower its historic value. This according to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wampum
I had always thought that status in a tribe was conferred by what you did for others. Wouldn't that be a nice change? I'd be very rich, as I am sure many here would be.
Kirby comments ...
To begin with, money is far from a recent invention. Money has existed from the very first day that two men ever traded one thing for another.
I think you are incorrectly assuming that things like paper bills and coins are "money". They are not. That is called currency.
Currency is something useful only in civilised society where agreements and laws are (by the majority) kept and adhered to. So, for instance, the concept of paper money would be useless in an anarchy-oriented society. Men have to respect each other's property and rights for the concept of paper money to work at all.
When a society begins to break down, that's precisely when it's currency begins to become useless.
Secondly, no one - absolutely no one - does or can live without money. Even in a barter system, the things being bartered ARE the money. Again, keeping in mind that money is simply an item worth some value in a trade or exchange.
Thirdly, every attempt (read your history...) EVERY attempt at socialism - ie, living without money - has resulted in genocide.
Every single time. No exceptions.
And the reason for this failure is that socialism fails to take into account human nature. If men only WANTED no more than they NEEDED, you might have a case. But as soon as a man WANTS more than he NEEDS, right then and there, the society has begun it's inevitable plunge into anarchy, revolt, uprising, and the "government's" inevitable response of massive oppression and genocide to keep the subjects down. It happens this way every single time it has been tried. EVERY TIME.
Just my "two cents" worth. (grin)
Mark comments ...
Meera - I completely agree with your explanation of the plight of the farmer in India. Vandana Shiva, one of the most inspirational people on the planet, talks brilliantly about this. Lyssa - spot on also. Ollie - yes I think we forget that fact because we've always grown up with it. Des - as always I love your posts. I am not a Star Trek follower myself but I guess the reason they gave it up because on a small community such as the Starship Enterprise or whatever ship they were on, their reputation was their currency and the all knew each other and worked out of service to each other, not just for themselves. Kim - I've never said money is evil - I'd really recommend reading my theory at http://www.justfortheloveofit.org/philosofree-nomoney . Kirby - never said that money was a recent invention, its just we've been around a very long time and money hasn't relative to that - 5% of the time to be exact. Saying that every time man has socialism (which for some unknown reason you seem to think was moneyless) is completely false! Man lived without money for 95% of mans time on the planet. Recently some Native American Indians lived without it until recently, and they little or no social problems, let alone genocide! I take on board some of your points but you make some strong views that just aren't based on reality.
Kim S. comments ...
Hmm... I did not say that you believed money was evil. I merely said that it wasn't. I think it says something about you that you chose to pull only that out of my comment--only you can answer as to what that is. However I will review your philosophy as requested.
Mark comments ...
Kim - yeah sorry, I didn't mean to sound like I was picking on that one sentence, it just made it sound like I was saying it WAS evil. As regards what you are saying about needs and wants, I completely agree, and about inspiring others and compound interest. I should have stated that I was totally in agreeance then, I was just short in time and energy and had to be brief. The reason I gave a link to the no-money section of the philosofree section was because your comment was about the fact you felt that money itself was not a problem, which in that no-money section I've mentioned I've stated why I believe it is a problem in itself. I could have re-hashed the whole thing but thought it better to just leave a link. My sincere apologies if you felt I wasn't responding to the rest, I just felt that link was my response. I agree that if people only took what they needed, we would live in a completely different world right now. But because money allows people to not see the consequences of them taking more than the need on the planet and others, they don't ever see why they shouldn't take more than they need. But yes, Iets all try to inspire others to live as gently as they can on planet, people and animals. Much respect Kim to you and your husband.
Dago comments ...
This has been a very informative post! Nice to see everybody pitching in and stirring up the discussion.
I just read Schwermer's book. Yes, it is a different approach to life without money, compared to what you are doing. Still valid.
All the best, Mark!
Kenrick Chin comments ...
You are not alone.
Read "Life, Money and Illusion - living on Earth as if you want to stay" by Mike Nickerson.
http://www.sustainwellbeing.net
Also "Agenda for a New Economy" by David Korten"
visit http://www.steady-state.ca
Lilamayi comments ...
Hi, I am very interested in this and I would like more practical info about how you actually get by - the basics;
How do you have somewhere to live? do you pay rent in kind? squat? or own a place. How about Council Tax and water rates?
What do you eat? and where do you get it from? I would love to know. Thank you Lilamayi
Ana comments ...
The problem is not money, it's the greed behind it. Get rid of the greed and problem solve, now we need solutions to get rid of it, it should start at school, but school is serving the system.
BTW To concentrate too much in money matters it's still making the moneyless person attach to it but in a negative way.
haha comments ...
Humans used to live in caves and die when they were 27. You should try that next; it's clearly better because it's the way things used to be!
Ana comments ...
Haha, you right is a tough life, and I hear the life expectancy of traveler is short too. All my life I have had this fantasy that I would like to live as a traveler. In fact, once upon a time I used to travel a lot with my husband and seriously considered to make a living, until our first child was borned. We still doing it but has been reduced to only our yearly summer holidays.
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