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26 Jun
Who is the extremist?
| 43 comments |
I often get the term 'extremist' thrown in my direction for living the way I do. Especially from my friends who have leanings towards Buddhism. 'Take the middle path' I am told. This I can understand - living without money, I imagine, must seem extreme to most. But what exactly is 'extremism'?
Is it having £5,000 of your own money in the bank, or owing the bank £5,000? Or is it having £0?
-£5,000---------------------------£0---------------------------£5,000
Which is the middle path?
Is it being complicit in a political and economic system that makes 50% of the world's kids increasingly look like this -
and in the process reducing the other half to a state such as this
Is extremism a capitalist system where people's total pursuit to live like this -
means they become completely apathetic to those whom, the exact same system, inevitably forces to live like this -
Is a society where it is acceptable - in fact, encouraged - to accumulate millions in the bank, whilst every two seconds a child dies of starvation, not a form of extremism?
Or is it extremist to want to create a new system, where all of the above polarised scenarios would be completely unimaginable and unacceptable? In fact, incomprehensible? Is such a vision extreme?
Were the Native Americans extremists for wanting to live in harmony with their surroundings, for wanting to live as respectfully and as gratefully for all they had? Many of them lived without money until the white man 'civilised' them. Was their way of life extreme, or just ecological sound?
What is extreme anyway? Having a colour TV, a car and a washing machine would have been seen to be extremely rich and luxurious 100 years ago. Now it is seen as the basic you can live with in modern western society. Eating food and consuming things that are within 10 miles of where you dwelt was once the norm. To live like that now , it seems, is to live as an extremist.
Does the modern Buddhist see Sakyamuni Buddha's life as extreme? If not, and if they believe he chose the middle path, how can they perceive my life to be extreme? The person Buddhists revere most lived much more simply than me, yet my way is no longer the middle path. Is it that my way of life - living without the illusion of debt or credit - is actually extreme, or is it just that the goalposts have moved?
Would the Buddha see the way most Buddhists live today as 'the middle way', or some sort of delusional excuse for not living as gently on the planet as one could? My belief is that he meant the middle path to mean somewhere between complete sensual indulgence and complete self-mortification. I'm not sure he would have seen hand-washing your clothes and looking after your own energy and waste as being the height of self-mortification. I belief he would have seen that as the middle path.
I often hear Buddhists say that we do not need to interfere in things, that Karma will look after all. I ask - what kind of Karma do you inherit when you sit by and watch injustices taking place without doing all that you can to stop them?
Is shitting in your water supply and blasting it full of chemicals to make it clean again not a form of extremism (as in being extremely unwise)? Is throwing one third of our food in the bin not extremely disrespectful to the farmers who were enslaved to grow it?
This is not a criticism of Buddhism. A lot of my spiritual beliefs are shared by Buddhism; having said that they also run through Islam, Christianity, Jainism and Hinduism. I just want to question what 'extreme' actually means - is it something absolute, or something relative to what everyone else is doing? And what is the middle path and is it really as wide as it seems? And why is living exactly the way you belief - with no disparity between head, heart and hands - perceived nowadays as being extreme? I am tired of being seen as an extremist - I just want to be normal. But not if normality means this.
What do you think is extreme? Is it a cruise to the Caribbean? Living without money? Doing a job you really hate? Flat-screen TV's? Eating waste food from bins? Foraging food in the wild?
Have the indulgent extremes of the past now become 'the middle way'?
THE FREECONOMY BLOG is written by Mark Boyle, founder member of the Freeconomy Community
Comment on this Post:
Lyssa M comments ...
Good points you made there.... I think what the majority of people do is deemed "normal" and so middle ground almost. I thought you were extreme but that extreme is needed to show the excess in our lives if that makes sense? Like small changes mount up but are still small where as the way you do it is very obvious, and inspires that if you can live this way the rest of us can surely make sacrifices and do our bit.
For me, personally the waste food is too much... but I'm squeemish... but used to work in Marks and Spensers and was fine taking from the trolley of out of date stock as it was wheeled out back but after it went in the big bins... no way.... The Job you hate... well that's a main cause of arguments in this house, lol... As is the flat screen telly, I was fine watching my little, decades old, 2" wide screen (tho the subtitles on foreign films were hard to make out, lol) Foraging for food doesn't come into it AT ALL.... that's just fun, lol...
Caribbean cruise would be extreme to me, and living without money is a dream to me... would love to... but having children is very expensive... the main thing I find is the uniform!! and shoes!!
Kim Stevens comments ...
Are you aware of the large traditional Mennonite communities in Ontario, Canada? They don't have much use for banks, but have bought up a lot of acres for their communities. It isn't like your life, but they use horses and buggies instead of cars, make their own clothes, food, etc. They sell things outside their communities, but don't really buy much from outside. People tend to be suspicious of them and they were blamed for a German measles outbreak about 5-10 years ago. And they are just trying to maintain a culture that is bound to their religion. I would think their carbon footprint is quite small.
Ana comments ...
My way is try to make individual changes
(even if there are small ones) considering our own personal and limited circumstances, that's all.
I'm in favour of progress, but I think we should question more if a determinated progress is the right one, perhaps taking more time investigating the consequences.
Mark comments ...
Lyssa - really enjoyed your post as always! Kim - I hadn't heard of the Mennonite communities and just checked them out, sounds very interesting, would love to meet some people from there! Ana - I agree, I think if we all made small positive changes each week we would find ourselves in a totally different world!
Googlywotsit comments ...
I can say nothing excempt I wholeheartily agree with everything you say in this blog entry.
Were you ever to set up a community of like-minded individuals able(and allowed) to live as you currently are, I would love to join!
You make a lot of sense in a senseless world my friend. Thank You :)
Pete comments ...
Good blog Mark, I read it every week. I think most peoples definition of extreme is based on where the person making the judgement is placed economically. So for example, if you are a millionaire you will not feel that it is extreme to spend 3 grand on a handbag but someone on benefits will.
Also, almost half the world — over three billion people — live on less than $2.50 a day, so if "normal" is what the majority are doing then you are living a "normal" life. However most of us do not take this point of reference and instead class our own life style as "normal" and benchmark everything else against that.
I have spoken to people who think it’s extreme that very wealthy people will spend vast sums on entertaining and yet will spend a hundred pounds on a night out themselves and consider this normal. The millionaire would class this as an extremely paltry sum however this would be a years salary for many and therefore could also be classed as extreme to them.
LyssaM comments ...
Mark - Glad you enjoyed it... I enjoy your posts always too (well obviously otherwise I'd have stopped reading long ago, lol)
Pete - Very good points.... my hubby is Albanian but earns in one week over twice as much as his cousins earn in 2 months!! Same as my inlaws pension.... I think my parents get in one week what my inlaws get in 3 or 4 months! But it's just normal... and plenty for what they need... food doesn't cost as much... growing their own isn't a new fad like it is over here but the norm (just don't let them advise you in the garden tho... made that mistake last yeah and lost all my aubergines and tomatoes by putting them out on mil's advise too early).
And regarding the 3 grand handbag... well my sister got one for £150 (on the same day that my thousand year old one had given up and I bought one for £3, lol) I think I was still telling her how completely insane she was a week later!
db comments ...
It's your approach to life - your attitude towards it, not necessarily your actions - one can be extreme and rich, just as one can be extreme and poor. One can be enslaved by life rich, and one can be enslaved by life poor - its not so shallow as what you do but how you feel doing either. One can be the richest man in the world, and be a buddha, just as one can be the poorest and be a buddha - its attitude, which is elusive. Either way is hard or easy, you have to fear losing your money and paying debt when your rich, people stealing your belongings and such - and when your poor you have to fear finding a place to sleep, being accepted in society, food - do what you do and youll find your way in either scenario. Much good can come from the rich just as much can come from the poor, much harm can come from the rich just as the poor. According to buddhist philosophy, if one understands the nature of all phenomenal things (without inherent existence - empty) does it really make sense to be so ardent about one way over another - what it comes down to is what will be the most beneficial, and its not just one way.
Mark comments ...
Googlywotsit - Great, I'll keep you updated then as that is certainly my long-term vision. Pete - I'd agree, though I wish it wasn't so. LyssaM - sunburn - I've been working outside all year and so I think I have built up some kind of resistance, so haven't been using it. Not that I am recommending not using it, it may be very stupid of me, but not a lot of choice. Anyone know a naturally occuring sun tan lotion so to speak? I haven't got burnt yet, I think because my skin has worked up a tan since february so it wasn't going into the summer white and ready for a burning. Sorry the answer isn't more interesting than that! DB - I agree and disagree with parts. I am not sure rich can ever be a positive thing, either for the owner of the wealth or for those things the wealth was gained from.
Ant comments ...
Mark
After 20 years of being vegetarian I still get regularly asked ‘so why are you a vegetarian?’.. As if I am being accused of performing some kind of bizarre ritual. At the age of 18 I was in South India for 6 months where vegetarianism is the norm.
People are even more shocked when they discover I haven’t had a TV for 15 years. ‘What do you do with your time? How do you entertain your 4 year old daughter?’ (I bite my tongue..but my internal reply is; I live and she has a childhood).
So I agree, society determines what is accepted.
Yes you are an extremist. And that is why you should be applauded.
(PS. Again, I don’t agree with some things that you say. E.g. you state that being rich can never be a good thing. What about philanthropy? I would argue that ‘Mr. Rich’ Bill Gates has done a huge amount of good as a direct result of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Much more good than we could ever hope to achieve).
LyssaM comments ...
lol... your answer is fine... I have no tips I'm afraid... for my children I married a Mediterranean that's designed for 40+ degrees so they have never burnt... me on the other hand... slightest sun and I'm red... apart from this year I'm tanning quite nicely... maybe it's like you that since my daughter started school and I've started walking a long way through open fields to get there it means I've been in the sun alot more from the start.... maybe that's the key, lol. I do however always make sure to put strong sunlotion on my moles... seeing as all my sisters have had to cut theirs out due to pre cancerous cells.
I know for after you've been in the sun you can put yogurt on for a natural aftersun lotion but being vegan that wouldn't be very good for you, lol
Ant- Well done you for going without telly... I grew up with a telly but very limited time with it... and my best friend at school had no telly and she had a wonderful and full childhood... but not having a telly it forces you to come up with other activities for your child and forces you to engage with them more... much better than a life infront of the screen! Unfortunately hubby is telly mad which is most annoying cos it means so much time is just wasted infront of the thing!!!
BTW... (sorry this is going on forever isn't it?) Mark... have you ever had any trouble with your trailer coming off? The rubber bit on mine (where it clamps to the bike) is almost totally perished and I was having some real trouble today having to stop to do it up again and I'm soooooo weak in my hands, which doesn't help... but because the trailer coming off freecycle I havn't a clue where to replace that bit.
Mark comments ...
Ant - thank you for that, I really empathise with you re: vegetarianism and TV. I didn't explain myself very well when I say being rich can never be a good thing. If you take Bill Gates example, the money that he directs to the Gates Foundation has come into existence with a lot of embodied destruction and social issues (Microsoft have some seriously unethical policies, check it out on the internet in an ironic sort of way). To cut to the chase, it is my personal view that the problems caused in making money to begin with outweigh the benefits of what they do with some of the profits. It would be like Esso or Shell giving money to a conservation or environmental agency to help clean up the pollution / oil spills they cause. I think it is better not to destroy to begin with.
I hope that clarifies my statement a bit better, was rushed earlier.
Lyssa - sorry, never had that problem, if I was nearby I would take a look but not sure what to recommend to be honest. How about looking for a bike mechanic through the website, its quite a common shared skill in Bristol? Give it a go! Lots of love x
pak yeh comments ...
Thank you very much for your article.They called me extremist too when I tell people that we should use God's money (gold,silver and copper money) instead of paper money(man made fraud money)
If people in the past can live without money, why cant we ???
The fear is more of ignorance rather than rational.
I have given up my bussiness as an M&E Contractor to be a farmer.I dont have to bribe government officials any more, I still cannot do without paper money, but I am using less paper money though and I belief i have sinned less by supporting a fraudulent and sinful economics.
sixpm comments ...
Human race, we are all capable of extreme cruelty and kindness, we use war to MAKE peace. We make 'others' to accept 'our' views, otherwise we will use any form to make 'them' into submission or to accept our views.
This holographic 3rd density/dimension is nothing but a classroom for all us all spiritual adolescense, hence this mass extreme behaviour witness in our world, as we are all at different stages of development.
Our society, economy and education are based on the complete denial of our spiritual nature, this is evident in your excellent
article. The lack of understanding that each person should be taught to take full responsibility in all of our own action is the cause of slow growth in our spirituality.
Our spiritual self is made up of pure loving energy, it contains understanding, patience, acceptance and compassion. Our senses is then hijacked by our lower physical nature, much of our spiritual nature is ignored by lack of awareness of it, the outcome is clearly to be seen.
comments ...
I thing what Mark is doing have a great merit, in fact this is one of my fav sites because I share many ideas with all of you but I'm still sitting on the fence. IMHO, fighting money it's fighting the wrong enemy. Money it's a wonderful tool ever invented to exchange your working week for something you can carry in your pocket. It's has been a fantastic tool for our society to progress and all of us have/are benefiting, but the whole problem it's, that money is being corrupted and abused, and we wrongly have been focusing our whole life on money, we have became money slaves. The best probe is that the motives of our education has been sifted from being more altruistic in helping others to a more selfish personal gain, aiming to get rich asap.
HaqG comments ...
Hi Mark. I'm a Muslim, fully endose your sentiments. Most people seem to be dedicated to the hedonistic mode of life, with an insatiable hunger for personal gratification and with no sense of responsibility to others less fortunate. Thanks for your thought provoking thoughts. :)
Middleman comments ...
I like the way you've put it Mark. Very wise and thoughtful of you to have included the teachings of Buddha.
Unfortunately it is not to do with the system, but it is to do with human greed and the perception of duality, the rich vs poor, worthy vs unworthy, me vs them attitude. It has been this attitude which has led us to the world we live in today. Unfortunately even in the most perfect system devised there will always be those who will take advantage of it, even if it does not cost money.
So how do we get out of such a system? Well the first is that we should work to remember our spiritual selves. This is most important. The issues the world has today is simply due to the fact we have forgotten our higher self, and the spiritual powers that we each possess. By spiritual I mean that portion of the 'Holy and Divine' that we truly are ie. every man, woman, child and government official. We should learn not to become antagonistic, but learn to embrace all and help all, for many need our help more than we need theirs. Learn to give and share as best that you can, and turn away from all that which is harmful to ourselves or others. Learn to recognise the divinity in everyone including those we find ourselves difficult to work with for they have simply forgotten who they really are, and work to remind them of this fact. If you do this you will find it easier to deal with all situations.
The second is that we should learn to forgive others. No matter how bad whatever things have been on whichever side, learn to forgive everyone, including your enemies. Learn to love your enemies instead of hate them, for they have simply forgotten their true purpose. As Wayne Dyer says there is no justification at all for any form of resentment, for resentments is merely a psychotic state of the mind. Know that there is no way to happiness, but that happiness is the way. Learn to see all avenues of life point towards the same paths or states of evolution...and that all spiritual teachings all point towards the same way or look towards the same peak or summit. Imagine that all religions/teachings are like different perspectives of looking at a mountain, but each sees it in its own way, and that it is your purpose to find that which gives the most detailed or complete view.
And the last thing we need to do is place our sovereignty with God. Know that when we love another; we share with another; we give to/help another we are helping another part of ourselves to remember who we really are and in the process we are going back to the source.....by doing things in God's honour. As Jesus said it is the heart of a child that will know God's kingdom. So cultivate a heart of a child one should if one wants to see this kingdom. There is no greater Bible/Koran or Sutra in the world than giving graciously the love that is present from the depths of our very own hearts.
I might like to add, one should also learn that in this universe nothing comes for free. All phenomena is based upon cause and effect, that what you decide today will affect you tomorrow. Likewise with your life. So-called luck, fortune or fate of your life is merely an accumulation of the decisions and actions you've made in the past. This is essentially what karma is. Understand that the choices you make today will have a profound affect on your future.....so learn to choose and act wisely, whatever it is in life you wish to pursue.
As to the issues of food, overfeeding and starvation in our world, there is no better way to stopping this than to teach our children/peoples to learn to value the preciousness of food, how it gets to be on their table through the hard work of others, and the values of not wasting it. The causes of the modern obese child are more the work of the parents than the children, so its important that the parents are educated and reminded about this. Wasting food is simply a bad habit....and all habits can be changed. Same goes for using money. It is simply a habit that can be changed. I would also add here that eating less meat would also help in terms of both health and raising the ethics of our world.
Guriben comments ...
Hi Mark,
re: Sunscreen. You could try this recipe: http://www.instructables.com/id/Homemade-Sunscreen/
Cheers
Ben
PS> See you at the FOSS event if not before!
Kim Stevens comments ...
About Sunscreen: I spent one full year eating an exclusively raw vegan diet (not very environment friendly in Canada, I admit) and I stopped sunburning. In fact, my muscles stopped hurting after exercise. This held for two years, and my daughters did not burn their first summer either, but now we all burn again. I would love to go back to a raw vegan lifestyle. Another perk is that I went from requiring 8 hours sleep to requiring about 3 each night. Also Mark, learn your EFT! I have been doing surrogate healing (distance work--I am never in the same room with a client) with EFT for free for the past 2 years. I have had many miraculous results, including a cancer client who should be dead by conventional wisdom (Stage IV in her bones--paid out by her insurance), but is stable instead and each test shows her a little better. EFT is seriously beneficial for the world.
Ed in Leeds comments ...
Spot on. Be heartened that if you're provoking a reaction, you're getting somewhere. One thing I wrestle with is how to be provocative yet still accessible to people/friends around me, who I really want to join me on this journey towards simplicity. I'm all for extremism (if that's what they want to call it), but I'm suspicious of purism if that makes this new worldview/living seem too far away from them.
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Max comments ...
"Having a colour TV, a car and a washing machine would have been seen to be extremely rich and luxurious 100 years ago."
Yes, especially since FM radio hadn't been invented, Ford hadn't started production, and *women* were using mangles. Remember that returning to a life of early civilisation means a lot of heavy labour and mundane chores have to be shared out.
Max comments ...
On a more positive note, I don't think you're an extremist, just a radical.
lolz comments ...
Something that is extreme is at a point furthest from its possible center. Since in this case the center consists of the norms of society, you are an extremist, in thought and action. And silly.
A "political and economic system" makes kids fat? I always thought it was the food they and their parents decided to eat. The system forces people to be poor? Please explain how. And capitalism is responsible for starving Africans? You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. The nations in Africa experiencing mass starvation do not have a functioning free market system. You seem to have a penchant for blaming capitalism for all the world's ills. Sort of like how the Nazis blamed everything on the Jews.
SusanHopeMason comments ...
This is a message I sent to Joan Potvin after her response to my original message. She wrote back and asked if I had posted it on your site. I think that some of it, at least...fits what you are saying in this blog. I am very impressed with both of you. I am sorry that I mistakenly thought that she wrote the book, when it is your book. But, we all make mistakes. Anyway, this is what I have tried to express to people on numerous occassions, and most people just don't get it.
I got out of the hospital this past Friday, and I am feeeling a little better every day. Not 100% yet, but getting there. I am trying to take it kind of easy, and not push myself, so that I can heal better. But, being homeless means that you can't get any rest during the day.
I just read a blog you wrote about what to do with proceeds from your book about living money free, and I like idea number 4 the best. I would do something very much like that myself, if I had the needed resources available to me.
Have you ever seen Zeitgeist Addendum? I love that movie, but most people just don't get it. I read somewhere not long ago, that most people are addicted to money, like a drug. I don't think I am addicted to money, because I hate the limitations it puts on a person....but, I am addicted to having my needs for things like food and shelter supplied somehow, and in this current system, it is very difficult to provide these things for yourself, without money. We need to change the system totally, and learning to live without money, and teaching others to do the same, within the context of the moneyed world, is really the only place to start...because we can't just automatically get people to drop their programming and indoctrination, and start thinking in a different way.
Most people can't seem to let go of the idea that we are required to earn our keep. Well, I certainly don't believe we are. There are basic things you must really understand before you can give up the conventional way of thinking. First, the god concept of most people must change because that concept actually possesses most of the worst attributes of ego based humanity. There is nothing divine or holy about a jealous, judgemental, and punishing God. You cannot treat other people any better than you believe god does...especially those who have been programmed to believe that humanity is inferior to god, ie unworthy sinners....as if a perfect creator could make a mistake and still be perfect.
The next thing people must understand is that we are literally all one. Literally NOT figuratively. And, that everything on this planet belongs to all of us collectively. Which means that every one of us is entitled....as our birthright...our fair share of everything we need to live. That means everyone taking what they need and leaving the rest. And, if the technology that already exists were used properly, there would be no shortages of anything and everythng would be made to last a really long time, and there would be no need for putting pricetags on anything. This is assuming the disappearance of the hoarding elite. If the system was run properly, you would find that everyone's fair share is quite generous, and very sustainable.
Squirels gather nuts and live in trees. But, they do not have to pay rent to live in the trees, and they pay nothing but a little effort to gather the acorns. They know how much they will need, for the winter, and that is all they take. They do not profit off the hunger of their fellow squirrels by hoarding and then selling it to other squirrels.
I am opposed to the monetary system on general proinciple. It is a most injust system, and mostly benefits only the elite. Even those who seem to do relatively well in this system are still severely limited by it, and they don't really realize it. They just think that this is just the way thngs are, and they are fine with it....as long as they are reasonably comfortable.....because they don't know any better. They also don't understand how the monetary system harms the planet.
Good luck with the sale of your book. I am looking forward to reading it. Is is already out? I didn't notice the date of that blog. Have a great day!
Susan Hope Mason
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smile comments ...
My way is try to make individual changes
(even if there are small ones) considering our own personal and limited circumstances, that's all.
I'm in favour of progress, but I think we should question more if a determinated progress is the right one, perhaps taking more time investigating the consequences.
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ROBINPadilla31 comments ...
I would like to propose not to wait until you earn enough amount of money to buy all you need! You should get the business loans or short term loan and feel free
Nguyen30Jodie comments ...
That is known that cash can make people autonomous. But how to act if one doesn't have cash? The one way is to try to get the personal loans or just small business loan.
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